Will Vs. Intellect

[studystudystudy]

Feb 6, 2010 18:07:00 GMT theplumbtruth said:

Will-power in its base form is inspired by instinct. Survival of the fittest in nature (animal and plant development) results in a progressively stronger species. Add in intellect and that species learns to guide and control that will power. What you do with it next is what defines us as humans.

See: "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike pg.s 2-5

[studystudystudy]

Feb 6, 2010 11:24:06 GMT Tamrin said:

Well said: Give that man a coconut!


Welcome to the forum.

Why, thank you =D

*starts singing I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Coconuts*

[theplumbtruth]

Feb 6, 2010 20:06:26 GMT @maximus said:

Will, in the context the Masonic Magus is reaching for (it's use within Ceremonial) is meant as doing one's True Will, which entails prusuing one's own purpose, thus bringing one's personal Will into alignment with Divine will, thus achieving harmony.

I can appreciate the concept of being in harmony with Divine will and couldn't agree more. Obviously I was discussing it on a mundane level where I believe one has to master Will before approaching it in a more personal and on a higher level. Although I'm not sure Magus, in his intro to the topic, wasn't approaching it on the mundane. I wouldn't doubt either of you pursues it on a higher level.

I have always enjoyed your comments here. So I am curious how you would define Divine Will. And does it have any connection to intellect? (rotten thing is I have to run off to work and won't be able to read any further comments until much later!)

[maximus]

Divine will would, necessarily, differ with each individual. In order to determine what our purpose is, we must first endeavor to attain Knowledge and Conversation of one's Holy Guardian Angel, to use the Abramalin terminology, or one's Higher Self. The mundane mind can not conceive of the Divine until this level is reached. Note that this is only a beginning on the path.

[Tamrin]

In this divine sense, is the truth underlying, Crowley's famous maxim, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," which, in the mundane sense, appears unduly provocative, irresponsible and self-indulgent.

[Tamrin]

Feb 6, 2010 20:12:01 GMT @studystudystudy said:

See: "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike pg.s 2-5

Well cited: Give him a banana, to go with the coconut!

For those without the book, it is available on-line. The following is an excerpt, pp.1&2:

FORCE, unregulated or ill-regulated, is not only wasted in the void, like that of gunpowder burned in the open air, and steam unconfined by science; but, striking in the dark, and its blows meeting only the air, they recoil and bruise itself. It is destruction and ruin. It is the volcano, the earthquake, the cyclone;--not growth and progress. It is Polyphemus blinded, striking at random, and falling headlong among the sharp rocks by the impetus of his own blows.

The blind Force of the people is a Force that must be economized, and also managed, as the blind Force of steam, lifting the ponderous iron arms and turning the large wheels, is made to bore and rifle the cannon and to weave the most delicate lace. It must be regulated by Intellect. Intellect is to the people and the people's Force, what the slender needle of the compass is to the ship--its soul, always counselling the huge mass of wood and iron, and always pointing to the north. To attack the citadels built up on all sides against the human race by superstitions, despotisms, and prejudices, the Force must have a brain and a law. Then its deeds of daring produce permanent results, and there is real progress. Then there are sublime conquests. Thought is a force, and philosophy should be an energy, finding its aim and its effects in the amelioration of mankind. The two great motors are Truth and Love. When all these Forces are combined, and guided by the Intellect, and regulated by the RULE of Right, and Justice, and of combined and systematic movement and effort, the great revolution prepared for by the ages will begin to march. The POWER of the Deity Himself is in equilibrium with His WISDOM. Hence the only results are HARMONY.

[KNOs1s]

He lifted the sucker straight from Rabelais's GARGANTUA. Rabelais article A much better read in my opinion (IMO) than Crowley's works.

Feb 6, 2010 23:07:34 GMT Tamrin said:

In this divine sense, is the truth underlying, Crowley's famous maxim, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law," which, in the mundane sense, appears unduly provocative, irresponsible and self-indulgent.

[Tamrin]

Feb 6, 2010 23:51:49 GMT KNOs1s said:

He lifted the sucker straight from Rabelais's GARGANTUA.

Not surprising.

In their rules there was only one clause: Do what you will

Francois Rabelais

[maximus]

Feb 6, 2010 23:51:49 GMT KNOs1s said:

He lifted the sucker straight from Rabelais's GARGANTUA.

Of course. Everyone knows that.

[Tamrin]

The will is a beast of burden. If God mounts it, it wishes and goes
as God wills; if Satan mounts it, it wishes and goes as Satan wills;
Nor can it choose its rider... the riders contend for its possession

Martin Luther
(Died this day 1546)

[KNOs1s]

Great quote, Tamrin. Here's one from Brother Goethe:

“Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.”

[Tamrin]

Obstinacy is the result of the will
forcing itself into the place of the intellect


Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity


Arthur Schopenhauer
(Born this day 1788)

[ruffashlar]

Goethe's last words: "More Light!"

[Tamrin]

There is no conversation more boring than the one where everybody agrees

Michel de Montaigne
(Born this day 1533)

[sammy]

Feb 3, 2010 11:58:38 GMT @lauderdale said:

Do we KNOW all the Laws of Physics? Once upon a time it was held that to travel faster than about 30MPH would draw the air out of the lungs and suffocate the traveller. Not true. Likewise that we could never travel faster than the Speed of Sound, again long since thrown in the dustbin of history. Some say today that we cannot travel faster than the Speed of Light. Now what if that is one day disproved by some Extra Terrestrials arriving at Earth and proving that they did just that. I probably won't live that long but I would not be surprised.

Again how do we know that the Laws of Physics as they apply to Earth and this Solar System and Galaxy are universal? There could well be far flung parts of deep space where these Laws do not work.

We have no sure way to say. A being from a far off planet travelling at the speed of light might even have a totaly different existence. As humans our range of observation is quite limited in the reality of "sight" we see color but we also know many other forms of perception. Perhaps aliens have been here the whole time, we just cant percieve them. Travelling the speed of light im sure would have some side effect to your body. Perhaps to the extreme of energy being the physiology.

[cwhite]

In my opinion, I see Will vs Intellect comparable to the blade of a knife.

A dull blade of steel would be ideal for blunt force applications. To power threw whatever job, but the job would lack finesse. It would be useless for more delicate jobs.

A sharp blade of porcelain would be ideal for more intricate applications. To execute whatever job with precision, but the blade would break fairly easily. Rendering it useless.

Both have severely limited applications/ limited usefullness. The most useful/versitle knife would be a balanced one. Strong and sharp...

[sammy]

Great comparison Cwhite! I agree completely.

P.S. I use a chef knife