co-masonry or female only?

[maat]

I am a member of LDH (20 yrs)-we work the Lauderdale Ritual in Australia.
I was a member of the Theosophical Society for over 20 years.
I am Catholic
I have also read my way through quite a few libraries.

So far as I can see, concealed within the symbols, allegories and ceremonial actions of Freemasonry are the sacred secrets of all ages. Theosophical books explain these secrets in detail as do the books of the Sufis, the Torah, the Bible, Qabbala, etc, etc. If you search the web you will even find images of some ancient Chinese sages holding up squares and compasses.

So far as I can see, many people confuse spirit with religion. One can live without religion, but one cannot live without spirit. To endeavour to discover the secrets of the spirit may be a wise course to take.

So far as I can see, first things first. One does not give a laser gun to a five year old. Freemasonry likewise expects the Initiate (not new member!) to come well prepared. They must first prove that they are capable of controlling themselves, then prove they are willing to learn, then prove they are willing to act upon what they learn.

Learning to love one's neighbour as one's self tends to be a sticking point for most of us

[whistler]

Peterprint,
Our Lodges in New Zealand were members of LDH, We broke away from LDH, shortly after we had a visit from the Icelandic man who was the head at the time. I was involved, with the Dramas that lead up to the formation of the Eastern Order - even to being given the task of sending our charters back to Paris - There were many more reasons than just the influence of the T.S. for the split. Corab and I have very different views on the reasons for the split, and I have no wish to rehash those reasons.
Let me just assure you - My Masonry which I really love, is exactly the same now as it was when we were part of LDH except we have a different Head Office.
BTW

I have never been a member Theosophical Society
I am not a Christian
The greatest lesson Freemason gives me is the fifth stage of the fellowcraft degree

[peteprint1]

Hello Whistler,

Thank you for the information. I am happy to hear that you and your obedience are doing well.

[Deleted]

I know its a little late to ask this question but is Continental Freemasonry to liberal? I have heard that some forms of Continental Freemasonry do not use the bible on the alter as the volume of scared law but yet they remain traditional. I have also heard that rituals are totally secular so when comes to the third degree is there no mention of Hiram Abiff?

[peteprint1]

Hi Lynn,

It really depends on the jurisdiction; some use the bible or another sacred book (depending on the candidates religion), while many do employ a blank book. Obediences such as LDH are more spiritual in nature, while the Grand Orient of France and some others tend to be quite secular and have a minimum of references to anything religious. It all depends. Some leave it up to the lodge.

[Deleted]

So a Continental Freemason Order will discuss Hidden Mysteries of Science and Nature but will it discuss anything Esoteric?
I am really trying to image secular ritual because I find it really interesting to to take the story out of the ritual.

[whistler]

Nov 7, 2011 13:19:34 GMT lynn123 said:

So a Continental Freemason Order will discuss Hidden Mysteries of Science and Nature but will it discuss anything Esoteric?
I am really trying to image secular ritual because I find it really interesting to to take the story out of the ritual.

Lynn - from my experience in Lodge there isn't an easy option to "discuss" When we open our Lodge we would normally work prescribed ritual which occupies the time from open to close - when we don't have a specific ceremony members would usually be asked for a contribution of knowledge relating to some aspect of our lodge.

To take the story out of the ritual is to take your own interpreation
from the ritual - This is what Freemasonry is about- Freemasonry offers keys for your thoughts and understandings, Freemasonry will never tell you anything absolute . In one of the degrees I work - on one level the whole ritual is a drama of an historic happening.
Shakespeare would have been impressed.
Some members of that degree will never know of the historic drama and see something totally different and that is perfect

[Deleted]

Here is a question how, does Continental Freemasonry balance things out?

[whistler]

Nov 9, 2011 0:55:31 GMT lynn123 said:

Here is a question how, does Continental Freemasonry balance things out?

It doesn't really matter, There is Freemasonry for every requirement,
For some it Will be LDH, Some Eastern Order, Some UGLE, there are many Masonic groups each appropriate for those who belong to them- To seek to balance things out - just doesn't work - who would say what is the fulcrum -

[Deleted]

whistler I understand what your saying about the requirements for different orders but in liberal freemasonry orders like GWU, GODF or GLFB and WGLB they allow discussion of politics and religion. What happens when some goes cross the line and offends someone when discussing these topics? What are their boarder's? How do they balance this out?

Lets say hypothetically someone goes on a anti-religion speech inside one of these lodges when discussing religion. Whats going to happen to that person?

[whistler]

Nov 9, 2011 4:03:47 GMT lynn123 said:

whistler
Lets say hypothetically someone goes on a anti-religion speech inside one of these lodges when discussing religion. Whats going to happen to that person?

Lynn from my experience it just wouldn't happen - When our lodge is open - our time is occupied by the ritual we are working - or listening to a Masonic lecture - so there is no opportunity to discuss "Religion" or any other thing
When our lodge is closed and we are at refreshment the polite rules of conversation naturally apply - so once again there isn't an opportunity for a religious soap box -
Remember also we join Freemasonry to learn something new - not to teach others our views.
As I always say just study our own ritual and be the very best we can be at it - and let the others do their own thing

[peteprint1]

Nov 9, 2011 4:39:24 GMT whistler said:

Nov 9, 2011 4:03:47 GMT lynn123 said:

whistler
Lets say hypothetically someone goes on a anti-religion speech inside one of these lodges when discussing religion. Whats going to happen to that person?

Lynn from my experience it just wouldn't happen - When our lodge is open - our time is occupied by the ritual we are working - or listening to a Masonic lecture - so there is no opportunity to discuss "Religion" or any other thing
When our lodge is closed and we are at refreshment the polite rules of conversation naturally apply - so once again there isn't an opportunity for a religious soap box -
Remember also we join Freemasonry to learn something new - not to teach others our views.
As I always say just study our own ritual and be the very best we can be at it - and let the others do their own thing

Same here. I have never heard any talk in lodge that would offend someone's personal beliefs. While in principle we can discuss politics and religion in lodge, in practice the Brothers and Sisters are tactful enough not to engage in discussions that could provoke other members.

As Brother Whistler states, even at the agape after lodge, general rules of conversation apply. I know Brothers and Sisters that are theistic, Atheistic, left-leaning, and right-leaning. I learn this from interacting with them at a personal level. No one is likely to espouse these views in lodge, or at the dinner table.

[Deleted]

Goat Rider thank you for pointing out that the general rules of conversation are unwritten. In reality people believe in freedom of speech. I think saying something even in the most polite way can be offense. Especially when comes to the topics of religion and politics.

[Deleted]

Another thing that I am curious about is women freemasonry.

Three are two types Antient masonry and Continental masonry.
Basically English and French.

www.hfaf.org/faqs.htm
www.owf.org.uk/

www.glff.org/internet/index.php
www.mason.be/en/glf/

Do they recognize each other as masons since one group requires a belief in a supreme being and the other two don't?

[billmcelligott]

You may like to have a look at this video then

www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=72628

[Deleted]

Thank for posting that wonderful video billmcelligott.

The reason I am asking all these questions about female masonry is because I am wondering how female Freemasonry in the U.S. will evolve. Right now the feminine Freemasonry that was introduced to the U.S. is the Continental form. I think if Antient female masonry was introduced it would be more successful.

[billmcelligott]

You may be right lynn123

But Freemasonry has always been tolerant of others.

Womens Freemasonry and Mainstream in the UK have always had a respect for each other, distant but respectful. Co Masonry seems to make mainstream a bit suspicious, mostly I suspect because they feel the men should be in mainstream I suppose. but over the last 20 years I think there has been a thaw in that thinking. Certainly that is the opinion I was given when I joined.

Generally I think now 90% would say there is no problem with any form of Freemasonry in the UK. But they should not be mixed.

In other words why not have Mainstream, Co Masonry and Women's Freemasonry, each will appeal to different sections that find Freemasonry interesting. Why can that not work ? indeed it seems to be working fine.

[Deleted]

I know that Freemasonry is suppose to be tolerant.
I am glad to hear that mainstream masons in the UK have respect for female masons and for co-masons.
Things are very different in the US and main stream masons here especially in the south are not very tolerant sometimes especially when comes to prince hall masons. I don't see respect for female or co-masons in the U.S. anytime soon.

But what I am talking about is female masonry and the fact that I already see two different orders that may not recognize each other.

[Deleted]

I am not trying to start a heated debate or anything but I am starting to see that female masonry and even co-masons have recognition issues with in their on realm outside of mainstream freemasonry. It's a little bit of a let down and kind of a drawback.

[fractal3rd]

Hi there Lynn123, I did and do have the same 'let downs' as you do about Co/female-Masonry. Of course Annie Bassant re-wrote many of the rituals - which I enquired about. We are mainly LDH in SA. But there were some who broke away, I understand - and are termed clandestine. They wanted to follow the male craft rituals more closely - which I have to say, I kinda agree with. It is sad and I believe this is how the one true understanding of God (TGAOTU) has evoloved into all the different religions, which now fight each other claiming to be the truth - Masonry or female masonry could well go the same way if it does not unite in its core rituals and truths. At least thats my opionion - it was on the Baphomet topic and always will be - the core truths must never change. Honestly I am just happy to attend a lodge that accpets me for me and values my opinion at discussions, but also creates interesting agendas for me to ponder on, even if if they are agaist my personal beliefs. I am a young Mason but I'd like to think that at the end of the day, God is glorified and thats all that matters to me.