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Post by sagytb on Jul 24, 2017 5:07:00 GMT
Hi All,
I have a question regarding the "MB" letters on the grave in the third degree tracing board.
It refers to the secret code of the third degree but why it appears twice?
Does it have other meanings then the code?
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Post by peter2 on Jul 24, 2017 21:36:49 GMT
MB has 2 separate pronunciations.
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Post by sagytb on Jul 25, 2017 6:51:12 GMT
MB has 2 separate pronunciations. can you explain please?
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2211
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Post by 2211 on Jul 25, 2017 21:31:15 GMT
As far as I can tell One is Hebrew, the other Aramaic Breaking the word apart helps further.
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Post by peter2 on Jul 25, 2017 23:29:06 GMT
Or ancient Egyptian by one account.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 26, 2017 20:40:37 GMT
To the best of my knowledge here has not been a defined answer. We must go by the symbolic meaning in the ritual.
The problem with ancient Egyptian, no one has ever heard it spoken so it must be guessed at. Like many of the old languages.
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2211
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Post by 2211 on Jul 28, 2017 20:42:07 GMT
To the best of my knowledge here has not been a defined answer. We must go by the symbolic meaning in the ritual. The problem with ancient Egyptian, no one has ever heard it spoken so it must be guessed at. Like many of the old languages. I spend much of my time looking at these old languages. In most cases Hebrew, Paleo-Hebrew/Phoenician. Hopefully by comparing a few it will bring light and understanding. does anyone have experience with this?
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Post by peter2 on Jul 28, 2017 21:49:01 GMT
The Egyptian translation exists somewhere in the writings of Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. The difficulty is taking the phonetics that came to modern times and hoping that they sound something like the original.
Still, there may have been a hidden line of initiates from which the current version of the third degree appeared in about 1725. If so the modern phonetics might be quite good.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 29, 2017 22:34:38 GMT
The Egyptian translation exists somewhere in the writings of Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. The difficulty is taking the phonetics that came to modern times and hoping that they sound something like the original. Still, there may have been a hidden line of initiates from which the current version of the third degree appeared in about 1725. If so the modern phonetics might be quite good. I cannot see where Knight or Lomas have any special knowledge of the Old Egyptian spoken word. The only system that can show causal links on phonics is the spoken word. We have lost the story telling traditions. Those civilizations that have maintained them create some interesting factoids. Mongolia stories tell of the origins of the North American Indian. cherokeeregistry.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=414&Itemid=625Mongol Warrior North American Indian Dr Theodore Schurr, from the University of Pennsylvania has published DNA research that revealed genetic markers linking people living in Mongolia and southern Siberia, with indigenous populations in North America. A study of the mutations indicated a lineage shift between 13,000 and 14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the ice from Russia to America.
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Post by peter2 on Jul 30, 2017 5:00:47 GMT
>We have lost the story telling traditions.
That is generally true in the public domain but I do not know enough about private ritual groups to comment upon them e.g. those restricted to specific bloodlines.
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Roy
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Post by Roy on Aug 4, 2017 14:10:24 GMT
It's actually a funny story. In 1717 four lodges from London founded the first Grand Lodge. It took a couple of years before the third degree developed and of course there was a password M.B. Then there was an argument and some lodges left and so we had "Antients" (the split-off) and "Moderns". But... these two groups had different third degree passwords! M...e and M...c. (And other differences such as the position of the Wardens.) In 1813 they came back together (hence the United Grand Lodge) and because there was disagreement about certain details, including the third degree password, in the latter case both were used. When you read the third degree Emulation ritual (the original ritual from 1813), you will see that on raising, the candidate hears the double password M.B.e M.B.c (And so it goes in my own lodge as well.) Hence, on Emulation tracing boards you may see two MBs, either or not in pigpen cipher.
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Post by ionic on Aug 7, 2017 10:40:31 GMT
It's actually a funny story. In 1717 four lodges from London founded the first Grand Lodge. It took a couple of years before the third degree developed and of course there was a password M.B. Then there was an argument and some lodges left and so we had "Antients" (the split-off) and "Moderns". But... these two groups had different third degree passwords! M...e and M...c. (And other differences such as the position of the Wardens.) In 1813 they came back together (hence the United Grand Lodge) and because there was disagreement about certain details, including the third degree password, in the latter case both were used. When you read the third degree Emulation ritual (the original ritual from 1813), you will see that on raising, the candidate hears the double password M.B.e M.B.c (And so it goes in my own lodge as well.) Hence, on Emulation tracing boards you may see two MBs, either or not in pigpen cipher. You need to read Masonic Facts and Fictions by Henry Sadler 1887! He proved, using the Minutes of both Grand Lodges, that the Founders of the Antients Grand Lodge were Irish Freemasons living in London and not English Freemasons, no Lodges seceded from the Premier Grand Lodge to found that new Grand Lodge. It appears that some people have conflated the events in 1756 with 1777 which involved William Preston and the Lodge of Antiquity which had its warrant revoked and went on to (with support from the second Grand Lodge at York) proclaim itself as the Grand Lodge of England, South of the River Trent!
The variations of the passwords come from the GLE and the GLI.
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2211
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Post by 2211 on Sept 5, 2017 13:08:22 GMT
The Egyptian translation exists somewhere in the writings of Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. The difficulty is taking the phonetics that came to modern times and hoping that they sound something like the original. Still, there may have been a hidden line of initiates from which the current version of the third degree appeared in about 1725. If so the modern phonetics might be quite good. Speculation Last night I was thinking if there was a way to find the correct pronunciation of these words? and test all of the examples including the Egyptian in Lomas/Knights book What is being communicated is one thing, but how is another. Is the word meant to be spoken quickly, or slowly etc.
Perhaps using an Acoustic Tonoscope to project an image could shed light. A symbol that may be recognized within Masonry or in long forgotten temples
The images produced have been given different names...
Cymatics en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymatics
Chladni en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Chladni
Faraday Wave en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_wave
Has this already been studied or researched by a Masonic Research Institution? I remember reading that monks would chant in carefully constructed temples to achieve the perfect pitch and vibration.
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Post by peter2 on Sept 5, 2017 20:50:23 GMT
>find the correct pronunciation of these words
The MB words themselves are rather secondary - being a description of a situation.
In any case, who believes that saying some sounds will provide spiritual power?
It is the sayer not the saying that has power.
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2211
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Post by 2211 on Sept 5, 2017 22:21:47 GMT
>>In any case, who believes that saying some sounds will provide spiritual power?
The text was meant to apply a study perhaps linking symbols with sounds, and not greed for power. Acquiring " spiritual power " comes from within
>>it is the sayer not the saying that has power
Why not both?
A word can have many effects , as a frequency can resonate an object
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