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Post by celticgladiator on May 11, 2008 8:17:07 GMT
I would not say that the Shriners are hated in most blue lodges. They do take membership away from the Blue Lodge and that may cause strife. There are also lowlife groups amongst the Shrine like the Royal Order Of Jesters who seem to stand 110% against what Freemasonry teaches us so they are looked as hypocritical. The Shrine wants to be the "animal house" of Freemasonry when Freemasonry doesn't need one nor should it have one. The Shrine should just make thier own way. IMHO here in South Dakota i think the shrine helps are lodge membership since you have to be a MM to join the Shrine. i agree that a lot of guys come through blue lodge never to be seen again even though the shrine encourages them to get avctive in lodge. the shrine in Sioux Falls is very active and attracts a lot of people there fore helping our membership. even if they are not all active they still pay dues which in turn helps the orginazation. i joined the shrine because i could but i am a MM first and foremost, i even went through both the york and scottish rites because i wanted to learn more about masonry. i guess the point i am trying to make, at least here, we have a good relationship with the shrine.
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Post by windtimber on May 14, 2008 15:32:33 GMT
How about that! Another South Dakotan - celticgladiator! I trust that you've had the same experience with El Riad, and the Shrine in general out here on the prairies, that I've had. We recognize that we're all Master Masons and evey time we put on the fez we're symbolically tying the apron of MM about our waists. The relationship between the Blue Lodge, the Rites, and the Shrine is good - dare I say spectacular - in our area. Since a rising tide raises all boats, we all work together for the benefit of Freemasonry in general.
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Post by alchymicalmason on May 21, 2008 1:34:26 GMT
This thread caught my eye because my husband came home with a bunch of unsavory stories he had head about the local chapter of the Shrine. They are so bad that they do not bear repeating.
However, after careful observation of the person who told him the stories, I am inclined to think they are a stretch. The person who bad-mouthed the Shrine is very active in SR and actively recruits for them. Methinks the gentleman was using smear tactics to steer homeboy away from the Shrine and into the Rite! It worked. My husband is a proud 32nd degree! However, it would not have affected his involvement in the Blue Lodge one single bit. He loves his lodge and supports it in every way that he can.
I think that people join FM for different reasons and get different things out of it. While some may want to drink and party others maybe looking for a different experience. A good example is my own FM experience compared to my husbands. He is a traditional Mason and enjoys being part of a brotherhood of local guys. He is not interested in the symbolism or the esoteric stuff.
I, on the other hand, joined Co-Masonry for very different reasons. I wanted to be part of an esoteric lodge and to experience, first hand, the teachings that my lodge offers. We don't have a local lodge so I must fly or drive a long way to get to one. I am ok with that because my interests are different and I make the most of my time with my brn.
My husband does not understand my point of view but respects my right to seek my light where I see fit. I, in turn, respect his right to go hang out with the guys and knock back few beers afterwards or whatever. He is free and of good report! I will vouch for him and defend his right to drink beer and/or eat off of paper plates if that is where he sees the light!
Thanks for the great info! It sort of confirmed my suspicions about the situation!
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Post by JohnD on Jul 14, 2008 18:39:16 GMT
I have been warned by fellow GEN-Xers to stay away from the Shrine but, the old guys seem to enjoy it.
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Post by JohnD on Jul 14, 2008 21:00:27 GMT
What reason(s) did they give? To be honest, I cannot think of a solid reason they gave. It was more a roll-of-the-eyes, shoulder-shrugging, head-shaking physical response.
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Post by penfold on Jul 14, 2008 23:44:09 GMT
But we all know exactly what you mean! Give em ten years and they will have lost all sense of what "cool" is and have joined up!
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 14, 2008 23:44:40 GMT
Yup, that's all I need to know. Has me pondering a shriner pit in my drive way. But, then, y'know, the shriner is a wily critter and can always find a way in: I hear they're after our wimmin.
Uh, wait, not they're not . . .
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Post by JohnD on Jul 15, 2008 13:39:29 GMT
To be honest, I cannot think of a solid reason they gave. It was more a roll-of-the-eyes, shoulder-shrugging, head-shaking physical response. Ah! Quasi-negative unfocused generalistic psuedo-dismissive unapproving body-languaging peer pressure. Why didn't you just say so?!?! ;D haha I will be more upfront and honest next time
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Post by lebanon on Jul 22, 2008 9:00:06 GMT
can i ask question what is mean a blue lodge plz can any one 2 help me h_rida2002@yahoo.com
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 22, 2008 10:12:35 GMT
"Blue Lodge" means "Craft Lodge" the first three degrees of EA, FC and MM. It is an expression more often used in the USA to distinguish from York Rite, Shriners etc.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 26, 2008 18:41:37 GMT
Hi lauderdale and everyone. I don't mind saying I was surprised, and not a little shocked, to discover this unnatural divorce between Masons and alcohol in the US. I needn't tell you, a dry lodge in Scotland would quickly have to hand in its warrant - nobody would go! And I don't just mean Visitors either!!
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Jul 26, 2008 19:36:13 GMT
Well, we may be divorced but some of us still see each other
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 27, 2008 10:55:57 GMT
Nice to hear from you again Bro Ruff. I can never understand the "Dry" rule in most US Lodges, some would even "Blackball" (Blackcube in their case) any applicant connected with the Liquor Trade! Their Navy is Dry too. I often wonder if the Americans have a guilt complex about Alcohol, as shown by the disastrous period of Prohibition which greatly helped to boost "Organised Crime" in the USA. I can well understand why those US Masons who like a drink join the Shrine which is NOT Dry and as you say such a rule would die the death in Lodges here be they UGLE or GL of Scotland. Indeed most UGLE Masonic Centres have a bar.
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Post by JohnD on Jul 28, 2008 21:31:25 GMT
One thing that has me turned off from the Shriners is the "party" image. I can party on my own. I don't need to join an organization to make an excuse to go do it. My good friend is a cop in a US city and every time there is a Shriner convention of sorts they have to plus up the patrols in the areas where prostitutes frequent. Unfortunately, the next day's news has stories of Shriners being arrested for solicitation. That is not a good image or something I want to be a part of. I'm in the military and already surrounded by enough guys that go get drunk and do stupid things haha
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 29, 2008 15:18:36 GMT
I can party on my own.
Yes, but partying with other people there really helps. It's a bit like sex in that regard.
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Post by jasonmason on Aug 15, 2008 17:54:08 GMT
Why I don't support the Shrine....
1)We meet the first two weeks of the month and the shrine meets the same first two weeks of the month . Their Temple meeting is held the same night as my stated lodge meeting . So a member who is both has to decide which he wants to go to the most . And they hold theirlittle club meetings the same nights of other Lodges stated meetings . When they were asked to move their meetings to the last 2 weeks so members could attend Blue Lodge , they refused.
2) I have been to a few of their public fundraisers were the Shriners got(litterally) falling down drunk in front of the general public (non-masons) . After hearing what the non-masons had to say , I was actually embarresed of being a Mason , seeing how Freemasonry is lumped in together with those drunks , dragging down Freemasonry's good name .
3) The blackballing of good men and Masons because of all the little clicks they have in the Shrine . No Mason in good standing should ever be blackballed or refused entry into the Shrine .
4) Being told , when people finds out that I'm a Mason , that we throw the wildest parties in town .Confusing Freemasons with the Shrine . It's sad when Shriners/Freemasons are known for being drunks !
5) And for the trivial reason that you couldn't pay me to wear a silly looking fez .
If the Shrine did severe it's ties with Freemasonry , it wouldn't hurt my feelingsin the slightest .
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Aug 15, 2008 18:53:33 GMT
5) And for the trivial reason that you couldn't pay me to wear a silly looking fez . Hey, don't be dissin' the fez. Those hats are very cool. When I was a journalist, I periodically was assigned features on the various Shrine fund raisers and, for a very long time, my entire knowledge of the Craft was thru the Shrine (incidentally, every Shriner I ever met, offline and on, was/is a good man. Every one of them). And I'd interview them to write that feature and they'd always turn up in that hat and . . . I'd take my notes and speak very professionally the entire time. But all the while I wanted to drop my pen and notebook, grab that fez and ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuun. Never did it but . . . yeah, don't be dissin' the fez The BF did score one, not to very long ago. Very nice, new, never been worn. Only it doesn't have all the pretty shinies on it. Not the same
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on Aug 15, 2008 23:43:59 GMT
I have been to a few of their public fundraisers were the Shriners got (litterally) falling down drunk in front of the general public (non-masons). After hearing what the non-masons had to say, I was actually embarresed of being a Mason, seeing how Freemasonry is lumped in together with those drunks, dragging down Freemasonry's good name. A drunk is often thought to be anyone who drinks more than the speaker. Being told, when people finds out that I'm a Mason, that we throw the wildest parties in town. Seemingly these people do not have the same negatively judgmental attitude. Freemasonry did not begin as a society of wowsers and, outside the USA, some consumption of alcohol, hopefully within due and mature bounds, has been associated with the Craft since before inception of the premier grand lodge (which might be described as having been a drinking club).
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Aug 15, 2008 23:55:53 GMT
. . . outside the USA, some consumption of alcohol, hopefully within due and mature bounds, has been associated with the Craft since before inception of the premier grand lodge (which might be described as having been a drinking club). Yup. Check out the dudes in the lower left.
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 16, 2008 0:25:16 GMT
The Shrine would never have been my scene but I greatly admire the work they do for injured, sick and burned children , especially in a country where there is no National Health Service. No doubt some DO drink too much, the same could be said for Catholics, Jews, Atheists, and yes Blue Lodge Masons as although in the USA alcohol is banned in Masonic Temples, (unlike British Masonry where many Lodges have a bar in the same building as the Temple) I am sure that some Brethren have a drink before the Meeting or certainly afterwards.
Our Lord Jesus Christ changed water into wine at Cana-his first miracle-and celebrated the Last Supper with wine. Even St Paul, not exactly renowned for being a fun guy, advised St Timothy to "Drink not water but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake" I Timothy 5, 23. That's good enough for me!
I am sure that the majority of Shriners conduct themselves with decorum and as I have a large glass of wine in front of me as I type this I will raise it to salute them for the Good Works they perform.
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