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Post by devoutfreemason on May 29, 2007 17:09:24 GMT
On another forum that I am not allowed to post on there was an interesting topic on Masonic Lodges in Prison. While this may sound like a shocking scenerio, many organisations do have prison outreach programs. I know that religious groups like the LDS church for an example. While I do not see how a prison lodge can function (prison library perhaps) I do feel that there are worse things a man (or woman) could be when they exit prison than a Mason ;D
Thoughts?
BC
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Post by mike on May 29, 2007 21:35:04 GMT
I've never heard of a Lodge for prisoners (outside of "the Brotherhood" a work of fantasy by S Knight) but I have heard of Lodges where their main source of Cnadidates were members of the Prison Service.
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Post by wayseer on May 29, 2007 22:20:02 GMT
Oh well - are we nothing more than an outreach program now? I wonder what else M can he hived off on - collectors for charity perhaps?.
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Post by devoutfreemason on May 29, 2007 23:28:54 GMT
Oh well - are we nothing more than an outreach program now? I wonder what else M can he hived off on - collectors for charity perhaps?. I cannot see how becoming a man dead to darkness and reborn in the light is a bad thing. Call it what you will. God Bless, BC
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Post by maat on May 30, 2007 1:02:12 GMT
I would have serious doubts about what you suggest. Unless one is well in command of their self, emotions particularly, one can be easily overcome by the energies a lodge generates. The good bits will get better, but the 'bad' bits will be enhanced too and possibly overcome you. Some masons can probably cast their minds back to a time when they made some masonic advance, and then found they were behaving uncharacteristically badly? Bit like electricity, lodge, can light you up or electrocute you. Church services and advancement, same thing. An outreach programme based on masonic principals could work, but I would have to say a resounding NO to an actual lodge meeting... for the prisoners sake. Maat
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jmd
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Post by jmd on May 30, 2007 2:23:07 GMT
The only 'prisons' that I know of that had Masonic Lodges were POW camps.
Frankly, unless those forming a Lodge in prison were already Freemasons, and it included prison wardens, I do not see how it could operate, nor legitimately initiate free individuals.
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Post by maat on May 30, 2007 4:39:26 GMT
initiate free individuals. I wonder how many masons feel truly free in their lodges I wonder how many masons have not placed locks on their own thoughts beyond certain limits .. I wonder if any of us could cope with utter and total freedom.. Maat
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Post by leonardo on May 30, 2007 7:16:35 GMT
initiate free individuals. I wonder how many masons feel truly free in their lodges I wonder how many masons have not placed locks on their own thoughts beyond certain limits .. I wonder if any of us could cope with utter and total freedom.. Maat I wonder how many will answer with total honesty.
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Post by windtimber on Jun 1, 2007 1:03:35 GMT
In our jurisdiction a felony conviction disqualifies a candidate and has resulted in Masoinic charges against a raised brother ending in expulsion. I'm not certain where an exceptional pardon or restoration to civil rights after completion of felony sentence fits into the scheme of things.
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Post by keith on Jun 1, 2007 2:01:38 GMT
I wonder what the forum mentioned by devoutfreemason is and what unforgiveable thing he did which resulted in his expulsion. Perhaps he was maybe a tad outspoken!
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 1, 2007 3:49:51 GMT
The only 'prisons' that I know of that had Masonic Lodges were POW camps. From my understanding, after hearing a talk on the subject, while there was no objection to these POW meetings, they were not able to conduct any 'masonic' business. For instance, they were not able to initiate, pass or raise candidates. The reason given was that the participants were not free and were only able to assemble for the legitimate purposes of mutual comfort and support (I imagine too that they would have lacked any proper warrant or charter to conduct such business). I found this reference to a book (which I have not read), Behind the Wire, said to detail such activities.
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Post by penfold on Jun 1, 2007 9:09:27 GMT
I wonder what the forum mentioned by devoutfreemason is and what unforgiveable thing he did which resulted in his expulsion. Perhaps he was maybe a tad outspoken! That is not really important, if you want to discuss it with DFM please send him a PM. Thanks
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Post by keith on Jun 1, 2007 21:25:52 GMT
During WW2, Brirish POWs met as Freemasons in the POW camps. They did not have warrants or charters, so there were no 'Lodges" as such. They met as LoIs. so although they could practice the ritual etc, they had to do everything from memory and had few PMs in camp with them. In the circumstances it was not possible to initiate new Brethren. Freemasons in occupied Europe were sent to the concentration camps, it was extremely dangerous to be a Freemason there so everything had to be clandestine
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Post by devoutfreemason on Jun 1, 2007 21:57:13 GMT
I found the whole idea to be a curious one. I am a big believer in what someone can BECOME not what they ARE at any given moment. The fact is that most people in prison will sooner or later have to return to society. It is also a fact that if we could reduce the number of repeat offenders, the world would be a better place. And that is what Fremasonry is all about, making the world a better place. If one truley found the light in prison, that what should stop them from becoming a "brother?" If inside behind bars or outside in the real world, within a neighborhood lodge? I know that in many districts, it is customary to deny someone who has had a felony conviction. Now, this I do not agree with as blanket practice. Freemasonry, even by generic definition of "making good men better" should reach out to those who seek light. The fact is, in the lodge where I was initiated the "brothers' may not have had felony convictions but many of them routinley comitted felonies of the soul, that is almost worse. I understand that it is a radical idea, but that is who the first Freemasons where, the radical thinkers.
Ponder the idea, challenge the mind. Expand, learn, change and grow. That my Brothers is Freemasonry!!!
God Bless, BC
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 2, 2007 0:32:26 GMT
The only 'prisons' that I know of that had Masonic Lodges were POW camps. From my understanding, after hearing a talk on the subject, while there was no objection to these POW meetings, they were not able to conduct any 'masonic' business. For instance, they were not able to initiate, pass or raise candidates. The reason given was that the participants were not free and were only able to assemble for the legitimate purposes of mutual comfort and support (I imagine too that they would have lacked any proper warrant or charter to conduct such business). I found this reference to a book (which I have not read), Behind the Wire, said to detail such activities. OK, it's official, life is wierd! After a week of eerie coincidences and feelings of déjá vu, I have this morning been given a copy of the talk to which I referred less than 24 hours ago and which I had heard many years ago. It is the history of Lodge Liberation, No. 674 (Victorian Constitution), which was formed after WWII by former POWs from Changi who had assembled as Masons while imprisoned. If any Brother would like a copy please PM their snail mail address.
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Post by wayseer on Jun 2, 2007 2:03:14 GMT
Ponder the idea, challenge the mind. Expand, learn, change and grow. That my Brothers is Freemasonry!!! Yes- Thank you Bro. dfm - you point is well made. In reading your post and the following post by Bro Tamrin the thought happened to drop on me from a rather large height - Steel bars or barbed wire do not a prison make. Are we not more imprisoned by the perceptions of our own mind? ... in the lodge where I was initiated the "brothers' may not have had felony convictions but many of them routinley comitted felonies of the soul, that is almost worse.Yes - indeed. Thank you for your timely observations - they are worthy of deeper thought.
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Jun 2, 2007 10:53:17 GMT
We also have the philosophy that we take good men and make them better. There simply has to be some sort of starting point. All of your points seem good, but the man must be good before starting his Masonic journey. A prison is not the place for this
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Post by therondunn on Jun 2, 2007 11:50:05 GMT
Exactly, Br. E.
In my jurisdiction, a felon is not qualified to be made a mason. The qualifications are that a man must be a good man, respected in his community. A felon is, by definition, neither.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Jun 2, 2007 16:58:09 GMT
We also have the philosophy that we take good men and make them better. There simply has to be some sort of starting point. All of your points seem good, but the man must be good before starting his Masonic journey. A prison is not the place for this There have been cases where men have won the nobel prize after incarciration.Awakening is awakening, change is change. God Bless, BC
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Post by devoutfreemason on Jun 2, 2007 16:59:10 GMT
Exactly, Br. E. In my jurisdiction, a felon is not qualified to be made a mason. The qualifications are that a man must be a good man, respected in his community. A felon is, by definition, neither. Nelson Mandela was in prison for 25 years? Would you say that he is not a good man, respected in his community and is unfit to be a Mason? God Bless, BC
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