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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 2, 2007 19:45:42 GMT
Masons Working Together?
American Freemasons are kind of like crabs in a bucket; if one group starts to make progress in climbing out the rest just pull them back inside. I think there are several reasons for this type of behavior ranging from petty jealousies to fear of change. None of this internal bickering and back-biting works towards the good of the fraternity overall.
Many Masons are quick to point-out that I’m a rule breaker that refuses to work within “the system.” This, however, isn’t true but a generalization of what they heard someone else say on some Masonic forum. Contrary to popular belief I’m not the revolutionary rumor has made me out to be. I much prefer to work within the system where possible and only break free of its bonds when I realize nothing can be accomplished within the given framework. Anyone who knows me will tell you that whether it’s Freemasonry or my professional life I’m the type of person who always gets the job done regardless of how difficult or problematic it may be.
There is a growing divide among Masons in America today. Some are not very happy with the present system or its leadership. As a result of this secret little groups are popping up across the country. Everyone has heard of the RRCG and UGLA but they are just the most publicized of these groups. Recently the Grand Lodge of Connecticut discovered the “Committee to Preserve Masonry” and according to their web site (http://gl.ctfreemasons.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=165&Itemid=55) they are investigating it. They’re wasting their time because it is but one of many.
Being a perceived revolutionary leader has its advantages. Everyone who dislikes the present way things are being done tends to want to speak with you and make you aware of what’s happening in their neck of the woods.
The Grand Lodges are now faced with how to deal with the growing number of secret groups that want to see some changes. They can conduct draconian witch-hunts or try to discover a way to work through the issues and resolve the problems. The present method of conducting witch-hunts will ultimately fail because they don’t know who is involved with all the little groups or how many of them are working together to undermine the present system. Witch-hunts are a way of informing everyone of their own fears and proving just how malicious they are willing to be in order to maintain absolute power and authority. Witch-hunts are also counter-productive to the future of the Craft and only increase existing internal divisions.
The most reasonable and Masonic choice of action is to try and discover how to resolve the issues at hand and get everyone working together on the same page. The overwhelming obstacle that lies in the way of accomplishing this is the lack of trust between the opposing parties. The progressive Masons don’t trust the powers that be because of their past draconian practices. The Grand Lodges don’t trust the progressive Masons because they fear many of the changes they wish to implement. The challenge we now face is how to get these two groups to talk openly and honestly about the situation.
So long as the present situation continues Freemasonry will pay the cost of the conflict. An organization divided against itself cannot stand.
I don’t have a good solution to the present problems and would like to hear from everyone on both sides of the proverbial fence. Is there a solution? If so, how do you envision it working? Merely saying “everyone needs to work within the system” simply isn’t enough. If that were the solution the problem wouldn’t be growing. Ignoring the problems by claiming: “it’s only a few disgruntled Masons” is to remain blind to the reality that’s taking place.
Maybe today can be the day we start finding solutions instead of creating more problems.
Jeff Peace
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Post by middlepillar on Sept 2, 2007 20:16:17 GMT
Jeff I am going to answer this post in perhaps a completely diferent way than what you would expect. Firstly, I am aware of the views of many members of the different forums that are frequented by Masons at the moment. The whys and why nots are of no interest to me (and I think that I speak for the majority of The Admin). You quote; "So long as the present situation continues Freemasonry will pay the cost of the conflict. An organization divided against itself cannot stand. " I would have to answer, why? It is these types of conflicts that have shaped our history! If there are enough brethren who feel the way you do, you will attract a mighty group of Masons, once you have enough members you will be able to provide the Freemasonry that they wish to practice on a country wide scale. "An organisation divided against itself cannot stand so it will have to change and adapt" This can be a good thing. I look at your web site and see the things that are going on, and can only congratulate you on what has been achieved. However, if you do not deliver, then you and your colleagues alone will be responsible for letting down all those that have believed in your vision. I personally wish you the very best, we have two recently formed organisations in England that are trying to break the Mould,(RGLE & GLoAE) I have always stated that if they are giving Masons what Masons want they will thrive, if not they will die. I have only wished them well because the bottom line is they are Freemasons and although I might not agree with them they should be free to challenge if they want to and if they feel they can provide something that we (Freemasons) are not receiving. Lets look at the reality of things, All men in power are frightened or perhaps wary of losing it (especially to revolutionists!) we are not politcally naive to think otherwise surely? Grand Lodges are just the same as other organisations they will resist change at all costs, unless they can be convinced that the change is good (not just for the organisation but for them as well) this is a simple fact of life, the man in power calls the tune. No matter how just, change has to be 'sold' the right way. I do not know the answer, I do know that constantly attacking or being attacked is no answer, and it is our Forums policy to allow all Masonic discussion providing it remains civil. I do know it is good to talk! (Perhaps that can be a start? )
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 2, 2007 23:30:07 GMT
I'm looking for solutions to complex problems.
Some of the new organizations are clearly viable. The RRCG is an example of this. After being declared "clandestine" and losing its place to meet it continued to grow over eighteen months and is now building a temple facility. While at the same time the local mainstream lodge closed and put its building up for sale. The RRCG and groups like it are only one example though.
I see too much time and energy being wasted fighting among ourselves when this could be put to many better uses. Thus it becomes important to find solutions to these issues, and that is the point of my post.
How do we find a middle ground? How do we get people to work together constructively?
Talking is certainly a good start.
Jeff
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Post by gaslight on Sept 2, 2007 23:51:36 GMT
Recently the Grand Lodge of Connecticut discovered the “Committee to Preserve Masonry” and according to their web site (http://gl.ctfreemasons.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=165&Itemid=55) they are investigating it. They’re wasting their time because it is but one of many. I followed the link you gave and found this straightforward announcement: It has come to the attention of the Grand Lodge of Connecticut that an unsigned letter is being circulated from a "Committee to Preserve Masonry." This group is unknown to the Grand Lodge of Connecticut, does not have the sanction of the Grand Master, and did not have permission to use the return address listed on the letter. The so called committee has no standing in this Grand Lodge. An investigation is proceeding. Why should the GLC be wasting its time following up on this incident? If someone has created the impression that he's speaking for GLC when in fact he's not, surely the GLC has a duty to take action?
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 3, 2007 0:29:39 GMT
I don't think you understand what I meant in my post. This is but one of many little groups. Sure the GL should investigate but to what end? A witch-hunt?
Our problems cannot be solved through witch-hunts. We need to start communicating and being honest with one another.
Jeff
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Post by gaslight on Sept 3, 2007 1:41:22 GMT
I don't think you understand what I meant in my post. This is but one of many little groups. Sure the GL should investigate but to what end? A witch-hunt? Witch-hunt? I've heard of Brethren being hounded out of Masonry for being open about their pagan beliefs. Is that what's happening in GLC? I don't think I misunderstood your post and am not sure why you should think I did. Over the years I've seen both sides of this issue: GLs tromping all over individuals or groups who were attempting something new, some of them with the best will in the world. I've also seen individuals or groups attempt to undermine GL authority for the worst possible reasons. No connection, but I see that your profile lists Halcyon Lodge No. 49. I took at look at its website and was very impressed. I see that you use phpBB for a members forum. I'd be interested in hearing how much activity you get. I'm a webmaster myself and maintain both websites and phpBB forums, but never together. How does it work for you?
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 3, 2007 1:55:46 GMT
Our lodge just updated its web site to be more informative and include forums. It's all new so there's not much to report just yet. Our old web site was very basic. It is our hope that the new helps people understand what we are doing as Freemasons. Give us six months and I will have a better idea of how well it is working.
Jeff
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Post by hollandr on Sept 3, 2007 2:51:51 GMT
I wonder if we can return to the question rather than the questioner
For myself I make these observations:
- In many countries Masonic membership is declining - in Queensland by 2% annually in absolute numbers and even more as a percentage of the population - The non-charismatic christian churches have the same problem in 1st world countries - There is a widespread searching amongst the population to find spiritual meaning and practices
I deduce from this that:
- Masonry is currently not relevant to the spiritual searching of most of the population - The population will need to find other centres for spiritual support - Masonry may descend to a parlous state similar to 1717
So before there can be a way forward it is necessary to decide (or discover) whether:
- Masonry has a mission with the human race (shared with other spiritual orders) - Masons have a genuine interest in advancing that mission
If so then Masons may wish to consider whether steps to make Masonry relevant to the population are best carried out with:
- Existing Grand Lodges - Existing ritual based on the traditions of a small ethnic group
The answer to both might well be negative
In that case we might look to a "green fields" approach to the rebirth of Masonry in a new body
Cheers
Russell
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 3, 2007 3:39:08 GMT
Bro. Russell,
Thank you for your very enlightening post. It has given me pause for further contemplation on some issues that I hadn't fully considered.
Jeff
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Post by gaslight on Sept 3, 2007 4:44:20 GMT
Bro Russell, thank you for that stimulating post. I hope you don't mind if it respond to it in pieces. Some of my comments will be unoriginal and I'm sure you've seen them many times before. No need to respond if you have: I'm just chalking out my own point of view as the basis for further discussion.
Agreed. It's certainly declining in every jurisdiction I know, but a few individual lodges are bucking the trend. Maybe we could discuss what those lodges are doing right. Likewise, a few GLs are also increasing membership within a fairly orthodox organizational structure. I often wonder why it should work for them and not for others.
I suspect that human spiritual longings remain the same throughout the ages, but find different expressions. Maybe the recent interest in "new age" ideas is connected to the feeling of marginalization from recent developments in the sciences. The same sense of helpless that perhaps generated the post-modernist movement. While scientists are getting more and more ecstatic at the wonders they discover each year -- the glories of creation -- the spiritual excitement of these discoveries is not being communicated to the layman. As FMs I think we should reinterpret the directives to study the seven liberal arts to include all branches of modern science, many of which were unknown in the 18th century.
Could you expand a little on what was parlous about Masonry at that time? The date you choose would appear to refer to the first GL, but I maybe you're not referring to the motivations of those first GL members, or the politics behind them.
I'd prefer not to use the word 'ethnic' in this context, but wholeheartedly agree that FM has to take a long look at some of the elements it takes for granted. Not just pruning the remaining NT references in the ritual, but the whole concept of using OT stories to teach symbolic lessons. If symbols are supposed to activate deeply-stored archetypes in the psyche, chipping away at stones in a quarry will not have much relevance to someone from a culture or civilization that produced stately and superb edifices in wood. If we switched the working tools to saws, augers, etc. how would that affect the potency of the symbols? For the hypothetical brethren from other cultures, I mean.
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Post by hollandr on Sept 3, 2007 4:45:22 GMT
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Post by thedixiemason on Sept 3, 2007 4:57:24 GMT
Russell, You might want to look at the round buildings in England associated with Masonry. Also, you might want to look at the pictures I posted of the Pantheon. The S&C was in bronze as the cornerstone...2000 years ago. The Pantheon was a round building, similar to what was described in your link.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Sept 3, 2007 5:23:00 GMT
Freemasonry is not an organisation, no one holds the trademark to enlightenment or the square and compass. Freemasonry is an idea.
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Post by whistler on Sept 3, 2007 5:27:31 GMT
Our lodge just updated its web site to be more informative and include forums. It's all new so there's not much to report just yet. Our old web site was very basic. It is our hope that the new helps people understand what we are doing as Freemasons. Give us six months and I will have a better idea of how well it is working. Jeff Jeff I think you site is great. I really enjoyed the "Ghost" story - how exciting If you are lucky enough to experience it again say Hi, and start talking as if you can see the "Ghost" see if you can find out who he is etc..., you will be surprised - I would suggest it very unwise to say or do anything unmasonic in the room you first heard him. HGW
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Sept 3, 2007 5:59:03 GMT
Devout and dixie, please take it to another thread, the brother peace argument. Ignore dixie and let it go. That type of negative commentary will not be given the time here. I have yet to see Brother peace attack anyone here, so sins of another board should not follow one all over. Do not owrry what has been said elswhere, this is here. Sit back and wait for brother peace to "attack" someone ar do something way out of line before attacking and labeling him. This forum does have mod's that can handle jeff, you do not have to come shooting out of the gate and slam someone?
Please. Brother Holland, thanks for looking at the message and not the messenger Brother whistler, many feel it are the Spirits that have brought us together and given direction and strength. It truly is wonderful. Bro. TC
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Post by middlepillar on Sept 3, 2007 7:36:44 GMT
Okay everyone
As an Administrator I have had to delete and edit some posts.
I will say this only once. MFoL is not interested in the past histories of any member posting on this board. We are an open forum for all freemasons or non-freemasons who are interested in Masonry. We do not do Politics, we do not do personal insults, we do not do uneccessary criticism.
We do, do, Ideas! We also do Masonic thinking/education, we are a window of enlightenment for all Freemasons.
Please do not abuse this gift
many thanks
Middlepillar
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Post by leonardo on Sept 3, 2007 7:49:21 GMT
Okay everyone I will say this only once. MFoL is not interested in the past histories of any member posting on this board. We are an open forum for all freemasons or non-freemasons who are interested in Masonry. We do not do Politics, we do not do personal insults, we do not do uneccessary criticism. We do, do, Ideas! We also do Masonic thinking/education, we are a window of enlightenment for all Freemasons. Please do not abuse this gift many thanks Middlepillar That's right Chris. Agree totally. What has happened elsewhere has no real relevance on this forum for here all are treated respectfully. I urge everyone to try to keep this in mind when posting or replying to posts.
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 3, 2007 13:11:16 GMT
So before there can be a way forward it is necessary to decide (or discover) whether: - Masonry has a mission with the human race (shared with other spiritual orders) - Masons have a genuine interest in advancing that mission Cheers Russell Mission statements are common among almost all modern organizations. American Freemasonry (perhaps others as well) has adopted: "We make good men better" or some derivative of that idea. I believe this is a very poor mission statement for two reasons: 1. It focuses on the individual and does not provide a vision of how this is to be accomplished. 2. As Aristotle pointed-out we tend to believe that we are already good, and that our actions always benefit the good (self). The earlier mission of Freemasonry was better (IMO) and provided a stated goal and purpose. "Freemasonry is dedicated to the brotherhood of all mankind under the all-seeing eye of deity." In today's language it may be more accurate to say: "Freemasonry is dedicated to the brother/sisterhood of all of humanity under the all-seeing eye of deity." There are multiple benefits to the old mission statement: 1. It is a group vision as opposed to an individual one. In other words it is something we, as Masons, can work towards together as a group. 2. It lights the path to resolving many of our own internal problems as an organization. i.e. If our mission is the brother/sisterhood of all then we must begin by recognizing all Masons as such and do away with the divisive internal politics. 3. The brother/sisterhood of humanity is a concept that the public can understand and buy into. 4. The concept of the brother/sisterhood of humanity does not step on the toes of the world's religions. Religion is about making you better and purifying your soul, while extending brother/sisterhood to all is a part of universal human morality. This mission does not reflect anything overtly spiritual. The spiritual aspect of the Craft is unique to every individual and their experience. By not being overtly spiritual we avoid issues with the world's religions. What are your thoughts on this?
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Post by gaslight on Sept 3, 2007 13:26:53 GMT
4. The concept of the brother/sisterhood of humanity does not step on the toes of the world's religions. Religion is about making you better and purifying your soul, while extending brother/sisterhood to all is a part of universal human morality. Some religions are not very enthusiastic about the concept of brotherhood/sisterhood. On the one hand they have a "for us or against us" mentality; on the other they view the sexes as irreconcilable. But how about the churches that take issue with exactly this point: that FM lures people into individual spirituality?
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Post by antoninus9 on Sept 3, 2007 14:10:51 GMT
Gaslight,
Reason can never prevail in the presence of blind faith. You cannot argue that the earth is a planet orbiting a star to a person who, based on faith, believes the earth is the center of the universe.
Jeff
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