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Post by hollandr on Jun 9, 2005 23:18:49 GMT
Brethren
Here is part of a post I made to another site. I do not intend it to trigger debate but rather see it as an invitation for brethren to share their inner experiences of the female energies within Creation.
" As for the various goddess forms, these are the ones that I have directly exprienced:
- Mother before creation (can be found by visualising the external edges of the universe as the walls of her womb). She is of course outside of time and space
- Great Mother who is the grandmother of the our Heavenly Father - she is spiritually beyond the Pleiades "who can resist the sweetness of the Pleiades" Book of Job. She takes a close interest in us and her energies are commonly midnight blue sometimes with star sparkles.
- World mother with a veil over the eyes to prevent our being driven to distraction by the wildness there. She enters the lodge as a mid blue energy coming from behind the officers when they are censed in the Co-Masonic opening ceremony. Well depicted by Roerich.
- Earth mother whose body is the elemental substances of the earth. If you do your perambulations properly in the 3rd degree, her energies will rise around the candidate - this is sometimes depicted in old illustrations as small flames around the candidate.
The Death entity is closely related to all Mother levels as death releases us from the form the Mother provided. This is preserved in the cable tow and in the female characteristics implicit in the WSW."
So what have others experienced?
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 10, 2005 8:06:14 GMT
Mother Lodge. Mother Riley. Atom Heart Mother. Mother-of-pearl. Motherboard. Mothers Of Invention. Möthörhead. Mother of All Wars. Mothership. Mother Superior. Mother of God. Motherf***er.
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 10, 2005 8:46:12 GMT
Not forgetting the Roman Catholic spin of taking the Goddess Figure common to most religions (perhaps Islam is the exception?) and de-sexing her as "The Virgin Mary" thus at a very clever stroke appearing to put women in a place of high honour but actually condemning them to a secondary role , taken to an extreme "Baby Factories", but forbidden from all but a small walk on part in the Liturgy unlike in most other Christian Churches where they can be Ordained Priests or Ministers, indeed the Church of Scotland recently had a Female Moderator of the General Assembly.
I have no wish to be prosecuted when Blair brings in his new PC Law regarding what one will be allowed to say about Religions but I consider the "Cult of Mary" one of the points about Roman Catholicism that is most objectionable.
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Jun 10, 2005 8:55:48 GMT
The cult of Mary is following that of Isis.
Don't forget that Christianity contains elements coming from Judaism and Hellenistic culture
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Post by Yoki on Jun 10, 2005 10:37:36 GMT
This is a subject closes to my heart, if I am going to pray it is to the feminine principle which I sometimes do at a small spring and for me its as scared as any church and yes lodge. When I enter the lodge I invite the Goddess along, I’m not sure if this is allowable but it happens any way. At the last initiation in which I was acting as JD (last of three tomorrow night) I was told the lodge was full of blue energy was that the feminie principle at work, I like to think it was.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 10, 2005 12:19:37 GMT
Yoki
Yes that is my experience that often various shades of blue indicate various female energies.
But of course not all blue is female. Electric blue for example
And DK tells us that colour veils the energy.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 10, 2005 12:32:07 GMT
Interesting that the RC Church uses Light Blue as the colour attributed to the Virgin Mary
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 10, 2005 15:51:13 GMT
She is our Mother, after all. My Egypt-addicted friends will think of a beautiful woman doing press-ups, the sky her constellation-spangled body: Noot, poised above Geb, the first land, the tumescent hills of the erectile Earth. Cosmas the Egyptian said something similar. Mary also figures in Islam: she is the Prophet Maryam, a highly respected figure in her own right as well as the mother of the Prophet Isa; that is, Jesus. In Islam, a Prophet is, broadly, anyone whom God has spoken to, or sent his angels to address.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 11, 2005 0:35:15 GMT
Taylorsman
Sometime around the 15th Century the Roman church decided on the standard colours for Mary. Heretical pictures of her showed her in red - derived from priestesses in some mystery religion. You can see some of those by painters mentioned in Holy Blood, Holy Grail.
The chosen colours and form (as I recall) were pale blue and white, with stars around the head, carrying a baby and with a foot on the head of a serpent.
From what I have read this is a straight take from Isis.
And is it Pike who says the only colours for a craft lodge are blue and white?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 11, 2005 10:52:10 GMT
Yes, when I was Initiated and saw the Aprons of the MMs I did wonder if there was some historical tie in between the Pale Blue and White of the Apron and the colours of the Virgin Mary in Roman Catholicism?
One of the reasons that Red would not be suitable to the Church Authorities may have been that it is traditionally the Colour of the Whore, "The Scarlet Woman". Red however is used Liturgically for Martyrs and the Holy Spirit in both the Roman Catholic and (High) Anglican Churches.
It may be of interest if I can digress slightly and give a listing, as far as I am aware, of the significance of the Liturgical Colours:-
Green Used on Ordinary Days, e.g the 8th Sunday after Trinity.
White Virgin Mary, Saints who were not Martyrs
Red Martyrs, the Holy Spirit
Purple Penitence Lent, Advent
Black Requiems , Funeral Services
Gold Great Feast Days, Christmas, Easter, Confirmations, Ordinations etc
Rose Colour Only worn twice a year on 4th Sunday in Lent (Laetare Sunday) and 3rd Sunday in Advent (Gaudate Sunday) . Not that often used in most Churches these days).
Now if anyone can tie these into a Mystical or Esoteric significance I would be grateful.
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Post by sid on Jun 11, 2005 21:58:54 GMT
Greetings, Now if anyone can tie these into a Mystical or Esoteric significance I would be grateful. Looking at the colours on the Tarot card "The World" XXI of the original Marseille deck, I noticed that the circle/ring/pistis Sophia/ is light blue the woman in its centre is standing upon black ground and is wearing a scarf red (front) and black (back). She is also holding a staff (yellow) in her left hand. The two 'X' bands above and below her are also yellow/gold. The 4 so called animals of the 4 Evangelists, Mathew, Mark, Luke & John represent (Studion) the numbers 12, 24, 48, & 72 = 4 foundation stones of the building for HOMO/Man/Angel, BOS/Bull, AGUILA/Eagle, LEO/Lion. These 4 numbers total 156 or 12 x 13 = 156. The number 156 is also the numerical value of the name Joseph and the 12 children of Joseph(?), as well as the numerical value of the word "Zion". Michael Maier also wrote that Europe was pregnant with child which has to do with the number & year of 1260. It also reminds me of the Kelpius group and the "Woman in the Wilderness" of their group in Ephrata. There is also a Masonic mark that looks like an axe (vertical line with 2 triangles at the top) Regarding the building of Studion: If you draw an equal sided square and join the 4 points by drawing a circle you will have the start of the building. Starting from the left hand side and going in an anticlockwise direction, place the 4 Evangelical animals in the following order: left hand side HOMO, then BOS (bottom), AGUILA (right hand side of the square and in the circle. LEO is in the top part of the circle. In the drawing(s) of Studion he starts the clock of God with Ruben at the first foundation stone 1-90 years x 24 = 2160. The 'year' & number 1620 on your drawing is at the end of the Eagle & and is the start of the Lion. As the numbers have not been written into the drawing the 'LEO' section would remain 'open'. It was the belief of Studion and many others that the year 1620 would be the time for the apearance of a New Order that would prepare the way for the second coming of Christ. Both then & today a period marked by the arrival of a multitude of different types of religious/esoteric/occult/mystical/fraternal etc., groups. If you draw another larger square outside the circle and joining at the tangent you will have a simple representation of both of Studion's drawings. Here place in the 4 Evangelical animals + cardinal points within each corner. Studion does not use the same sequence as the one on the Tarot card XXI. 1. = HOMO starting at the top left hand corner, 2. BOS (left hand corner), 3. AGUILA (right hand corner), & LEO (top right hand corner). BOS is the Eastern corner. I am not sure if Lukus or John belong to the Eastern wall in Church buildings. Does anyone perhaps know the tradition use and direction? I believe that Mathew is in the North, Mark in the South, Luke in the West, and John in the East (Eagle), but I am not sure as to which is correct. To close, in Eastern traditions there is the legend that the White TARA would come from the West. Considering the present activity of Europe in the East, India & China a long shot I guess... Personally, I have always felt at home with the Isis idea and the link with Egypt. Best I can do. P.S. Now join the lines in your drawing
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Post by sid on Jun 11, 2005 22:08:38 GMT
The cult of Mary is following that of Isis. Don't forget that Christianity contains elements coming from Judaism and Hellenistic culture ... and the EDDA
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 12, 2005 2:22:13 GMT
Purple is nowadays used instead of black in Catholic funeral services. And green is so commonly used as to have changed ecclesiastical fashion. Only the white surplice or undergarment goes unchanged (though not, it is to be hoped, unwashed), although this is sometimes worn as a surtan.
pale blue and white, with stars around the head, carrying a baby and with a foot on the head of a serpent. From what I have read this is a straight take from Isis.
I've never seen Isis represented like that. Stop reading Pike: he's just a longwinded Nineteenth Century nonsensemonger.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 12, 2005 3:09:24 GMT
Ruff >I've never seen Isis represented like that After a quick search with Google, compare www.crossroad.to/images/2002/symbols/isis.jpgwith www.crossroad.to/images/2002/symbols/isis5.jpgThe second seems a pretty straight forward copy of the first with the Queen of Heavens stars (they were/are both Queen of Heaven) replacing the Moon above Isis. I dare say there are better comparisons available including the serpent from the Revelation of St John. Cheers Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 12, 2005 6:29:56 GMT
You've seen one Queen of Heaven, you've pretty much seen them all. That don't impress me much. So where's the fire? Ishtar was called Queen of Heaven, so was Venus. Looks like there are more Queens in Heaven than the whole length of Christopher Street.
I meant, in pale blue and white. I've never seen Isis in pale blue and white. Sounds a fetching combination.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 12, 2005 7:19:44 GMT
Ruff I am looking for a picture of Isis in blue and white. Meanwhile: ""The earliest representations of Isis depict her crowned with the throne, this is correct. The horned disk was Hathor's symbol and only merged with the Isian headgear in later dynasties. The symbols of Isis are the throne, the tat, knot or buckle, and the sustrum [rattle]. She shares the latter with Hathor and Bast. Her color is clear sky blue." - Murray Hope, Practical Egyptian Magic" www.goddess2000.org/IsIs4SquareGL.jpg Here is Isis with blue flesh , like her sister. Not quite the same as clothes, but still an interesting choice. I would have thought that blue was better for the gown and a brownish for the face. Perhaps the artist is telling us something. Here is one with Isis in blue www.crystalinks.com/ennead.gif At least it looks like Isis on the right, with the late use of horns and the moon for a head-dress. The picture looks like a modern adaptation. So there is a start. No doubt more can be found. Cheers Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 12, 2005 9:18:40 GMT
The RCs have a Hymn, "Hail Queen of Heaven, the Ocean Star" and Mary is often portrayed as you describe Isis, flowing robe of White and Blue, serpent beneath her foot, crown of stars. Now interestingly she is usually shown as a blonde Nordic princess and not the swarthy little Arab woman that Christ's mother would more likely have been.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 12, 2005 20:14:38 GMT
I've never seen her portrayed as blonde in Catholic statuary, and God knows I've seen a few. In fact, usually her hair is out of sight under her wimple. Women's hair, you will remember, is considered incredibly sexually attractive to Christian writers. Angels supposedly go apesh!t for it. However, I will concede she is often depicted as hellish pale for a good Jewish girl. She ought at the very least to have a healthy suntan - even if she is a shikse.
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Post by hollandr on Jun 14, 2005 1:04:11 GMT
Ruff
I wonder sometimes if you are concerned that people have reverence for some images and mythology.
Is reverence a problem?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 14, 2005 4:42:30 GMT
Russell, I won't even dream of answering for Ruff, he is well able to do so for himself. However, many people object to showing reverence to images as this can be a small step away from Idolatry. One of the problems many Protestants have with Roman Catholic Churches is the preponderance of statues, pictures etc of Mary and Saints in little side altars and niches, with kneeling stools and candles in front of them. Now the "Official" explanation is that these are merely there to Inspire the Faithfull in Prayer, but I am less than convinced that many of the ordinary worshippers make that fine distinction and that they de facto pray to the statue and who it is supposed to represent rather than pray directly to God.
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