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Post by hollandr on Jul 9, 2005 4:41:46 GMT
>It's almost like someone is doing it deliberately.
Jonathon
That would be a good way of destroying the credibility of important events - putting out clearly wrong explanations.
That was done for years with ufo material. But eventually there were just too many sighting and people no longer accepted the explanation of weather balloons seen by crackpots.
Ruff
There are many esoteric aspects to Dune and I understand Herbert was into Sufi secret traditions.
And as I recall, about page 280 of the hard cover edition I read, an old woman identifies Arrakis as Mars.
If so, then the human race has already wrecked one planet and is close to doing it again.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Jul 9, 2005 7:21:29 GMT
You know Ruff, I am actually beginning to like you! We have a lot more in common that one would think. Lovecraft, Herbert (Dune), both Freemasons, both from Glasgow, (shame you support the wrong team however). BTW thanks for the link, exceedingly useful.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jul 9, 2005 7:41:04 GMT
You know Ruff, I am actually beginning to like you! We have a lot more in common that one would think. Lovecraft, Herbert (Dune), both Freemasons, both from Glasgow, (shame you support the wrong team however). BTW thanks for the link, exceedingly useful. Steve, i would say from Ruffs perspective it is YOU that supports the wrong team ,
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Post by a on Jul 9, 2005 9:02:17 GMT
>If so, then the human race has already wrecked one planet and is close to doing it again.Russell About wrecking Mars I have no idea. About wrecking Earth - well err ummm yes... we are. Consider how we exploit the Earths resources for our own benefit, without consideration for the benefit of the millions of other forms of life that we share this planet with. Consider how we use, abuse, bully, lie to, exploit fellow human beings around the world. Consider how we devastate vast swathes of land, ocean and atmosphere, through pollution and over exploitation. Our planet is a dynamic living entity in its own right and we are abusing it. So it is adapting to rebalance itself. I know that some of this is a natural cycle, but the human race is bollocking up this cycle due to ego, greed, power battles, selfishness etc. Hardly humane attributes. We have advanced so far technologically but have progressed so little in terms of basic humanity. And today we are so busy with our daily life that we all to often fail to notice the destruction around us, and within us. Yet it is clear to see, to smell, to breath, to taste, to feel. A huge amount falls out from this. Some thoughts? 1. Do we deserve this planet? Have we honoured ourselves and God? Or have we just shown that we are destructive brats in a playground? 2. Would other races of life in space actually want us travelling through space and imposing our version of humanity on the solar system? 3. If we, the human race, can't learn to live in harmony, Maat, balance on this planet, then perhaps in the bigger scheme of things, our planet will need to be rebalanced for us, through some sort of natural catastrophe. Flood anyone? 4. Perhaps at this point in time the human race is being given a last chance to rebalance. Perhaps if we can find a way to rebalance, to live in harmony, be loving, helpful and truthful to each other, then perhaps, just perhaps, our world will not forcefully reset, as we take a positive step on our journey. I could go on, and on, but I guess you will get my point. Now I wonder what tools are there out there that promote ego control, coming together in harmony, be loving, helpful and truthful? Anyone know of any?
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Post by taylorsman on Jul 9, 2005 10:38:34 GMT
Good Old Stewart!I feel that Starfleet Command ought to give him residency as Ethics Tutor at The Academy.
All too seriously the events on Thursday in London show the hatred that disparate groups have for each other. It will I have always felt take some threat from without to unite humankind. There are historical precedents for this. Hitler used the perceived threat of the Jews and Bolshevism to unite a divided Germany in 1933, Churchill used the real threat of Hitler to unite a Britain which had been socially and economically very divided in the 1930s. The plot of the film "Independence Day" has the nations of a divided Earth setting aside their historical and long standing differences to unite against hostile aliens. we have a steep hill to climb, we cant even get the two polarised camps in Ulster to even talk to each other! (and we have been trying to sort that for 37 years now)
I feel that it will take an external threat but that Humanity will NOT unite if left to its own devices, far from it as recent history shows with the breakup of former Empires such as the British and Soviet and the likely collapse of the EU in the next 10 to 15 years as it has grown too big and is too diverse.
Will some deus ex machina impose a solution? Will "Gaia" compensate by making the envornment inhospitable to Homo "Sapiens" but fit for insects, fish and other creatures? Who knows? I'm afraid we have to work with the material we find.
What tools will we find? asks Stewart. Either broken, rusty and seizied up, items missing from the box, or the key thereto is lost, or perhaps they have been so altered from their original puprose that they are like the Ritual "Working Tools" used in a Lodge, very ornate, chrome plated, but useless to dress a stone or build a real Temple.
Good Luck Stewart, you'll need it!
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 10, 2005 0:48:12 GMT
Thankyou, Steve, that is praise indeed, and very sincerely welcomed. I, for my part, whatever our trifling disagreements in the past, have never ceased in liking you.
As for right team/wrong team, well, that's a useless argument: they are both great teams, and the Old Firm wouldn't be the Old Firm without both together.
The only variable in all that is which team one happened to be brought up to support. And that's the same argument as true Patriotism: patriots the world over feel the same way about the same place - that place in the heart called Home.
Gustav Holst's I Vow to Thee, My Country is the national anthem of Patriotism itself. I don't suppose there'll ever be a national anthem of football, but if there is, we'll sing it together.
We'll all sing it, together.
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Post by whistler on Jul 10, 2005 3:50:10 GMT
as an extra thought....we exist in this dimension and if other dimensions exist (as i believe) then perhaps they are just vibrating or oscillating in a diffrent frequency to ours...this would explain where "ufos" come from and also explain paranormal activity... these other dimensions could be as close to us as at the end of our nose! I am sure you are correct. Moving into and out of those different frequencies with the physical baggage of our bodies - is the challenge. If I wish to enter the Astral - travel to London or Sirius I would wish to arrive with a suitable body so I could chat and do things with the locals - otherwise there would not be much point . The more you think the more interesting it becomes.
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Post by taylorsman on Jul 10, 2005 7:14:48 GMT
Yes, in the end and not having resided in Glasgow for 33 years the matter of our respective football teams fades from the intense passion it once aroused. Don't get me wrong, Ruff, I still like to see The Gers win as no doubt you do for Celtic. That however is that.
Down here in England, although there are intense football rivalries such as the two Manchester teams, or Arsenal/ Spurs, or Portsmouth/Southampton, thankfully there is no religious aspect, apart perhaps from Liverpool/Everton.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 10, 2005 7:35:10 GMT
>Do we deserve this planet?
Stewart
I have already suggested that the new form for Masonry is about just that: learning to deserve the planet. I have seen an outline of possible rituals - in image form.
Gradually the preconditions are coming for a working.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by a on Jul 10, 2005 8:51:03 GMT
Russell
I know.
I just look at the old workings and wonder a little philisophically why the light is not shining through more intensly. Through every past master, towards every master, fellow, apprentice, initiate and indeed bursting out into the community. There is absolutely no reason (beyond the negative aspects of human nature) why the existing structures should not be able to harness, feel, and spread the light much much better.
Appologies to those who do.
And to those who think that all this light stuff is just mumbo jumbo or some academic nostalgic trival, I am sure that you will enjoy the show as the light does penetrate more deeply and more widely over the coming years. Though I do hope that you do decide to participate, as opposed to being a mere spectator.
I am just curious whether UGLE will grasp the reigns and lead, or whether it will be the French based fraternities that continue their impressive drive forward, or another grouping, or as Russell indicates, a new form of Masonry, will come along and steal the show in our world. Either way Freemasonry will be refreshed. It is just a question of which physical form will show leadership in the Work.
Though while being accurate, leadership is not the best term, for all fraternities really do need, in my opinion, to work better together. So it is more of a group fraternal thing. But someone has to lead, even within a group structure. I wonder which fraternity it will be? It will be interesting to watch and see.
May even involve travelling through space as the Mother Lodge on Sirius provides a gentile guiding hand or a proverbial kick up the bum to its daughter lodges on Earth.
Russell
You are right we do need to learn to deserve this planet. I am just less sure than you appear to be that we have sufficient time left to learn this lesson. Our universe is after all much bigger than Earth and the human race. We are but a speck in the fragment of wonder that is creation.
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Post by whistler on Jul 10, 2005 9:14:24 GMT
I can't see why we have to learn to deserve this planet - it is perfect for us to learn the lessons we wished to learn when we decided to incarnate on it - To say planet earth is something special and beautiful is a bit over the top... It is a very harsh place with Deserts, Deep Seas, Harsh Sun Shine, violent storms, droughts, Floods - pestilence, Brutal Snow storms, and glaciers, raging rivers, disease, creatures that eat each other - to swoon over a pretty sunset, of the deep blue - is to gloss over reality - That beautiful sunset is a reminder for some that tomorrow the sun will rise and burn again tomorrow. The Clear Blue sea a reminder that yesterday it swallowed up somebodies loved one.... We deserve the earth the way it is
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 10, 2005 21:16:01 GMT
Moving into and out of those different frequencies with the physical baggage of our bodies - is the challenge. If I wish to enter the Astral - travel to London or Sirius I would wish to arrive with a suitable body...
Blimey, travelling from London to Luton without your own physical baggage travelling to Lanzarote - that's the real challenge.
When human technology can master the intricacies of a luggage retrieval system, then we will be ready to charge extra for an upgrade to Business Class on astral travel.
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Post by whistler on Jul 10, 2005 22:58:20 GMT
Moving into and out of those different frequencies with the physical baggage of our bodies - is the challenge. If I wish to enter the Astral - travel to London or Sirius I would wish to arrive with a suitable body...Blimey, travelling from London to Luton without your own physical baggage travelling to Lanzarote - that's the real challenge. When human technology can master the intricacies of a luggage retrieval system, then we will be ready to charge extra for an upgrade to Business Class on astral travel. And I'm so worried about the baggage retrieval System they've got at Heathrow. Fly Astral Lines you might get lost but you will still have your baggage
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Post by hollandr on Jul 23, 2005 1:55:59 GMT
>Our universe is after all much bigger than Earth and the human race. We are but a speck in the fragment of wonder that is creation.
Stewart
Statistically that is correct. But statistics are only a description of ignorance of causes.
In the case of humans (4th kingdom), there are some experimental circumstances occurring, and we are situated on the 4th (pivot) planet in a solar system that itself has unusual characteristics.
As a result this human race is under close observation from the central sun (in the Pleiades) and from the greater central sun.
The human race has significance beyond its place in the scheme of creation.
So let us take up the challenge and embody the new.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by a on Jul 23, 2005 9:11:57 GMT
In the case of humans (4th kingdom), there are some experimental circumstances occurring, and we are situated on the 4th (pivot) planet in a solar system that itself has unusual characteristics. Your understanding of this is greater than mine. If you mean Sirius here I would agree. Again your knowledge here is greater than mine. At my current level of understanding I view all of creation to be a wonder, and am exploring interactions, connections and similarities. I am afraid that my current opinion of the human race leaves something to be desired. And we do need to find a way to put the humanity back into humans. So I suppose that I do agree with you but more for negative, than for, positive reasons (the ills that humans spew onto other humans, other creatures and our world). Indeed, though there is a time for everything, and sometimes you need to take a step backwards to take two forwards. The most difficult issue that I have just now is that I have come so far so fast. Until about a year ago I had read little esoteric material, and was working solely from what I could feel and what I knew. Since then however I have been reading a lot of esoteric material, and this has perhaps surprisingly slowed me down. Why? Because some of it I know is true. Some of it sweeps right above my head. And some of it does not sit right with me. Now realising that I am on a ladder of evolution this is to be expected. But, and this is a big but. It was a lot easier when I was just working from what I knew and felt inside. That said some books like the Compte de Gabilis that Sid recommended to me, nearly made me cry. That is as Sid said, a real jewel of a book. One which I recognise so much and which has helped me enormously. But all of this happens for a reason, and my esoteric reading has helped me understand that I am far from alone in my understanding of esoterics, even if my take on some issues is a little different in some areas to what I have read. Anyway circling back to your comment re taking up the challenges. I for one certainly am, though as my approach and experiences are different to many, I may be doing it in a different way to most. But there really is a reason for everything. The trick in life is trying to fathom that reason out. But you know this. More generally your comment "taking up the challenges and embody the new" is actually quite significant for all of the esoteric societies in our world today. Esoteric societies really can offer so much to our world at this point in time, much more so that they have perhaps been able to for a long while. All that they have to do is "take up the challenges and embody the new". Which should not be that difficult as the "new" happens to be rather "old". This really is quite a wonderful time to explore the esoteric, and it won't be that long before there is a renewed impulse for esoteric understanding, given that the spiritual awakening of humanity is proceeding. Those esoteric societies that are ready, strong, and relevant, will be able to offer so much over the coming years, if they can find the inner courage to do so.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 23, 2005 22:40:51 GMT
Russell,
Respectfully, let me inform you: you are a nutcase.
Stewart, stop encouraging him.
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Post by hollandr on Jul 24, 2005 0:06:49 GMT
Ruff
I like to think that Shakespeare knew a thing or two: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy"
Or, if you prefer the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, you can hardly expect to take part in solar system's local government if you do not read the public notices.
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jul 24, 2005 1:02:58 GMT
Russell,
There are indeed, more things in heaven and earth, Russell, than are dreamed of in either your philosophy or mine. Occasionally, however, my philosophy touches upon things which are in heaven and earth, not made up by crazy or seriously deluded people.
Or, if you prefer, the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - a work of fiction composed by Douglas Adams while sitting in the bath - you can hardly expect to take part in the solar system's local government if you keep talking total bollocks all the time!
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Post by a on Jul 24, 2005 1:41:41 GMT
Ruff
Think back a few years and you may recall me being rather lost.
I can now tell you that while I do not understand all of what Russell says, the parts that I do, are accurate. It is something that I have come to feel.
Does it matter if I am right or wrong? Not really as I am on a journey that is personal to me. Does it matter if Russell is right or wrong? I am sure that he is only following his heart, and is doing what he can where he can. But he is certainly not forcing you to believe him.
Russell is however, not talking bollocks. And even if he was, can I plead with you to respect his right to talk bollocks. I realise that you are GLoS not UGLE, but under the UGLE definition of brotherly love, "every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others". So please Ruff, listen, read, feel, reflect, disagree as much as you want, but please don't accord it as being bollocks.
And especially not total bollocks.
Open your heart to the possibility Ruff. It may not be Crowley sex magic, but it is magic. Pure and simple. For the beauty of life really is astounding when you pass through the veils of life.
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Post by kizzy on Jul 24, 2005 2:11:59 GMT
Gentlemen please!
I do not happen to agree with Russell's hypothesis on Time Travel. If we do ever succeed in so doing I would imagine that some very advanced technology would be required utilising a great deal of power. I would look to Physics ,Science and Engineering to resolve this question as it has done over the centuries for communication, powered travel, flight, space travel ,(albeit still a few short steps for Man).
However as Stewart says, Russell is as entitled to express his theories as any other poster here. By all means knock them down with Logic but the use of expressions such as "bollocks" and "nutcase" are uncalled for and detract from the dignity and harmony of the Forum.
Now, having said that I am off back to bed, it being 03.12 hours in the morning here in the UK.
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