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Post by whistler on Jul 5, 2005 10:13:32 GMT
I have just read that in some French workings two large pillars are place inside the Lodge on either side of the door, in the West, and the WSW and WJW sit at tirangular tables beside them - This arrangement is derived from the Chaldaean System - Do any Lodges still do This?
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jul 5, 2005 10:47:21 GMT
WSW and WJW
A bit clearer, please?
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Post by sid on Jul 5, 2005 11:57:04 GMT
WSW and WJW A bit clearer, please? Just a long shot: Worthy Senior Worden & Worthy Junior Worden?
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Jul 5, 2005 12:39:19 GMT
It may well be Worshipful Junior & Senior Wardens.
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Post by cezarek on Jul 5, 2005 12:40:10 GMT
I have just read that in some French workings two large pillars are place inside the Lodge on either side of the door, in the West, and the WSW and WJW sit at tirangular tables beside them - This arrangement is derived from the Chaldaean System - Do any Lodges still do This? Yes. I thought they all did. Shows how naive I am about other jurisdictions.
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Post by sid on Jul 5, 2005 13:28:45 GMT
Well, you are all 'walking' and 'working' within Sacred Geometry, which causes the movement of energy, above & below. I look upon the 2 pillars as the foundation & the completion of the Temple, that is reflected upon the floor of tiles, and I would expect that the polished stone would be a sphere of black which would reflect the light (white). The triangle of equal sides, represents 'perfection' and the 'Law of the Triangle' i.e., that everything 'manifests' according to this law, and at the 3rd point. I have only experienced the 'actual' movement of the Shekinah once and it spun at great speed & in a clockwise direction. Each triangular table at each of the pillars, probably 'reflects' the actual 'movement' and manifestation of this energy i.e., 'above' & 'below' within the Temple. just more sidbits
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Post by whistler on Jul 5, 2005 19:08:45 GMT
Sorry W = Worshipful - The Triangular Tables attracted my attention, Our wardens have pedestals one in the South, the other West.
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Post by maat on Jul 6, 2005 0:02:21 GMT
Upon the two pillars you will probably find two globes - one with terrestial detailing and the other with celestial detailing. A good ponder point. It reiterates Sid's point of walking and working the Energy above and below.
Sid - can you elucidate on your Shekinar experience? Only if you feel this is the time or place. I have come to realise that it is only in sharing 'the experience' that sooner or later there are enough experiences out there for some to start rethinking things. Of course you have to get used the "Herrummmphs" & "balderdashes" but what the heck...
I am only very occasionally, and very involuntarity, clairvoyant - but I have seen a moving shimmer of pale blue light about the blade of a sword. This is more the celestial side of Energy I am led to believe.
When you get right down to it - we are just an apparent and relatively static mass of intelligent energy. The scientist can tell you that. We can only see each other because we operate within the same 'waveband'. Move up the notch too far and we will disappear from the sight of others. Think dog whistles - same thing in the sound waveband.
Freemasons seek the Light - and that is exactly what we are when we move up the 'waveband' - I mean literally. Freemasonry is telling us HOW to move up the 'waveband' - religions (at their core) tell us how to do the same thing.
I liked the question someone posed on this forum in the past day or two (sorry forgot who you were but I LOVED it) - "when you find the Light what do you do with it?"
Hmmmm -
Maat (I'm still working on that one and doing the best I can in the meantime).
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Post by sid on Jul 6, 2005 0:54:04 GMT
Greetings Maat, Sid - can you elucidate on your Shekinah experience? Only if you feel this is the time or place. I have come to realise that it is only in sharing 'the experience' that sooner or later there are enough experiences out there for some to start rethinking things. Of course you have to get used the "Herrummmphs" & "balderdashes" but what the heck... Maat (I'm still working on that one and doing the best I can in the meantime). To say anything more about the experience would probably influence the experiences of others. Personally, I believe that what happened was simply that I had gotten too close to a higher vibration upon both the mental plane & through my use of visualization. I am not a Mason, and the experience was within a Rosicrucian Lodge and landscape (AMORC). If you wish to research this subject yourself, just visualize your Temple/Lodge while you are at home. Try and perfect the landscape etc., as best you can, and do not try to force things to happen within this landscape, and just let things flow naturally. Perhaps not on subject of topic, but in the USA it has been said that more than 1 1/2 million (!?) members have left Masonry. Although this may well be the cause of some concern and difficulty to the survival of some local Lodges, if one looks at this from a different angle, it may just be simply a fact that the 'vibration' of Masonry (for whatever reason) had/has been hightened or withdrawn to a higher level. Perhaps this is just pure speculation on my part. P.S. the number 777 has to do with the symbol of the ancient Order Rosae Crucis (closed), the LLL is for Light, Life & Love and relates to the Order Rosae Crucis (opened) i.e., the vehicle that was activated in 1915 by Imperator H. Spencer Lewis (AMORC).
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Post by maat on Jul 6, 2005 3:33:09 GMT
Hi Sid
Seems to me that Rosicrucians and Freemasons are here for exactly the same reason. I am rather surprised my feet were directed to Freemasonry rather than the RC but I do love Masonry. I particulary like your comments and find them thought provoking. Thank You.
Thought - it seems to me that between the Pillars there is a very wide gap. On one side we have Freemasons who find the Lodge a very pleasant social experience (or at least we hope so) on the other we have the Esoteric Freemasons who recognise the reason for Masonry - an educative process to the higher realities of our existance and ultimately the confirmation of our own immortality and the means whereby to realise it while still in a body (I am NOT talking about immortality of the body here). Problem is the two do not share the same language and each is frustrated by the other. Another problem is that generally speaking each Freemason (or person) can usually only give and receive influence to those immediately above or below them on the "scale". Third problem is - we often think we are higher or lower on the scale than we really are - so we have difficulty in knowing who to teach and who to learn from. I guess we just have to follow our intuition on this one....
Maat
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Post by hollandr on Jul 6, 2005 4:18:54 GMT
Sid
>I have only experienced the 'actual' movement of the Shekinah once and it spun at great speed & in a clockwise direction.
I presume that by Shekinah you refer to the triangular (?) white altar used in AMORC lodges. As compared with Shekinah the female consort of Jahweh.
The clockwise motion presumably indicates a clockwise movement of energy which is the direction in which Masons move around their lodges.
This is because the clockwise direction brings energy from spirit to matter. Or if you like, that is the flow for the temple in the heavens to come down into the physical lodge.
This movement is not to raise the consciousness of the brethren. That movement is anti-clockwise.
Maat
>but I have seen a moving shimmer of pale blue light about the blade of a sword.
Can you relate whether that pale blue was pure blue, or had a turquoise undertone or had a violet undertone?
The reason I ask is that I associate Sirius with a pale blue with a slight turquoise undertone. A bit like the Co-M ribbon for craft aprons.
>Seems to me that Rosicrucians and Freemasons are here for exactly the same reason.
Long ago I dreamed I attended a huge lodge and the various fraternal bodies each had their own place. I saw AMORC and Freemasons and other groups that I did not recognise.
Cheers
Russell
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jul 6, 2005 7:59:16 GMT
Whistler, here is a schematic picture of the masonic Italian temple. The JW sits in front of the Entered Apprentices.
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Post by JulesTheBit on Jul 6, 2005 8:30:51 GMT
It may well be Worshipful Junior & Senior Wardens. Spot on Bod. That terminology is used quite close to home; in Scotland. Wardens are Worshipful, the WM is Right Worshipful. There was a time when a WM in England was a Grand Officer during his term of office. Not so anymore, but there's still a reference to that status in the installation ritual. S&F, Julian
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Post by maat on Jul 7, 2005 0:40:30 GMT
Russell
Blue similar to that that borders this page.
Maat
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Post by whistler on Jul 7, 2005 2:36:17 GMT
Back to beginning, Does anybodies Lodge have Triangle Shaped tables for their wardens?
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Post by hollandr on Jul 7, 2005 3:22:37 GMT
Whistler
Triangular tables seem obvious for RAM but we just used the square tables from the craft lodge furniture.
But why are the knocks with the left hand?
Cheers
Russell
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Jul 7, 2005 4:37:46 GMT
Whistler, my lodge has. But it's just a case
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Post by maat on Jul 7, 2005 23:44:42 GMT
Russell:
Re knocks with the left hand - I think you will find it is pointing to the teaching that the physical world is a mirror (reversed) image of the spiritual world. If you go through the ceremony in your mind you will find several things are done in reverse or only 'half' done.
If we think of the 2nd degree as pertaining to work we have to do here and HOW we should do it - one could see that the extension of the 2nd degree the Mark refers to WHY and the consequences of our actions (how it all works at different levels).
The RAM is another extension on the 2nd level but if you can picture the 2nd at the circumference of the circle and the Mark further towards the centre then the RAM would be at the centre....but between the Mark and RAM we have passed the barrier of manifestation - the SW has laid down his column. Thus we are in the 'heavenly worlds' or whatever term you wish to use. This degree illustrates the PLANNING stage of the work we will undertake when next the Word moves upon the 'waters of the deep'.
The story of Noah is one of the passing of the Old and collecting what will be needed for the New. The Essence of us, the kernel of our life experience, is gathered into that permanent atom of us (the light in the temple) and kept until our next manifestation where we start off again where we left off but this time with a new 'set of tools'. This law applies at a personal level and right thru to the Cosmic level. Thus the SW could be said to represent the end of the day, the end of the life, the end of the universe.
I have somewhere in my library the most wonderful Sufi book on the Noah theme.... and most curiously the whole book is printed with green ink. For non RAM's this is most significant.
Aaah the Magic of Masonry.. Maat
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Post by maat on Jul 13, 2005 0:16:27 GMT
An ah ha moment from Mark last night and relative to my previous post....
2nd Degree = physical work Mark = soul work RAM = spiritual work
Ah ha!
Cheers Maat
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Post by hollandr on Jul 13, 2005 1:18:56 GMT
>Re knocks with the left hand - I think you will find it is pointing to the teaching that the physical world is a mirror (reversed) image of the spiritual world.
Maat
Here is my experience just before I was installed in the chair of RAM.
I was on the bus going home before going to lodge. I visualised myself sitting in the chair and suddenly found myself sitting on the knees of TSCOTU.
In my right hand I held the tiller of the earth as an ark (hence only the left hand was available for knocks)
From my right hand also subtended a plumbline that descended a long way to a craft lodge far below (into the installation ritual?)
I understood from that that Ark Mariners are here to steer the ark of the earth to its next staging point. Judging from the ritual this is by right of descent rather than by initiation.
And that the RAM lodge provides the plumbline against which a craft lodge can measure its trueness
(Do I hear howls of protest?)
Cheers
Russell
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