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Post by maat on Nov 25, 2008 22:22:25 GMT
;D Piker! It was the wolf in masonic clothes that scared you off, wasn't it. ;D
Oh, by the way... your name cropped up in our lodge last night... our MPGC thinks she may have met you when she was in the UK.
Maat
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Post by delux on Nov 25, 2008 22:26:01 GMT
Maat, Oh how fun. Does that mean I have an open invitation to your lodge?
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Post by maat on Nov 25, 2008 22:28:52 GMT
This thread is moving too fast... it's 'Piker Cora' and which post delux - you can pm me. It's at time like this I know I must be getting old.
Maat
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Post by leonardo on Nov 25, 2008 22:29:58 GMT
Any supposed "Lodge" which accepts atheists as members cannot by definition be genuine Freemasonry I remind you Keith and everyone on the forum that all GLs are respected here so please do not make comments suggesting any form of freemasonry is less genuine than others. There's more to what defines Freemasonry than ones own GL and those in Amity with it.
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Post by maat on Nov 25, 2008 22:32:27 GMT
Maat, Oh how fun. Does that mean I have an open invitation to your lodge? Nup - I'd have to check you out first ;D
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Post by delux on Nov 25, 2008 22:34:49 GMT
Oh no, not another cavity search!
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Post by maat on Nov 25, 2008 22:56:14 GMT
Delux, I am getting the definite impression that you are not a lady... ?
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Post by maat on Nov 26, 2008 0:01:51 GMT
Delux, I am getting the definite impression that you are not a lady... ? You are only now are suspecting this? I want to hear him say he is a lady ... Maat (psst - I'm not a real blonde, Prom)
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Post by brandt on Nov 26, 2008 0:10:34 GMT
I have a thing for red heads. Who is a red head?
Brandt
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Post by maat on Nov 26, 2008 0:12:28 GMT
Delux
Good luck
The Blonde
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Post by maat on Nov 26, 2008 0:13:45 GMT
If we are all looking for what is lost.... What are athiests looking for?
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Post by brandt on Nov 26, 2008 0:15:55 GMT
Something veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols perhaps?
Brandt
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2008 9:53:11 GMT
The question asked here is "can an atheist be a Freemason?" My dictionary defines an atheist as someone who does not believe in the existence of a Supreme Being or Creator. One of the first questions you are asked when you express an interest in Freemasonry is "Do you believe in a Supreme Being" You are not required to define your understanding of that "Supreme Being" If you cannot answer "yes" to the question, you cannot be a Freemason. I can see nothing to discuss. Any supposed "Lodge" which accepts atheists as members cannot by definition be genuine Freemasonry +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To be accurate and fair Bro Keith, what you have posted is true only for your type of Freemasonry, Malecraft UGLE style Freemasonry sometimes called "Anglo-Saxon" Freemasonry. There are other parts of Universal Freemasonry such as Grand Orient de France which make no such requirement of aspiring members. I have sat in an Grand Orient Lodge and believe me they were not in any way "playing at Freemasonry" So the factual answer to this question is YES, an Atheist can be a Freemason in some parts of the Masonic family but not in others, exactly the same as the fact that a Woman can likewise be a Freemason in some GLs/Obediences but not in others. If one then wishes to expand this simple statement of fact by bringing in matters such as "Recognition" and "Intervisitation" then the answer is far more complex and contentious and I have no wish to enter into that dogfight again, I have had enough of those unresolvable questions elsewhere and in the past.
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Post by brandt on Nov 27, 2008 1:16:18 GMT
The "white book" is symbolic of any VSL that the candidate in question holds as sacred. My lodge, also of the Grand Orient, uses the Bible in most cases while another of our lodges uses the Book of Constitutions of the Grand Orient of the United States. In any case the obligation is taken seriously.
brandt
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Post by penfold on Nov 27, 2008 1:18:01 GMT
The answer is yes. Masons, in our lodge, are obligated on the VSL, which is a plain white book symbolic of their belief system. We do not inquire as to what they believe in, as that is something the brother has to account ot himself. Does this apply to all GOUSA candidates for initiation? You say Masons not Athiests that's the reason I ask. It seems to read all initiates are Ob. on the VSL which is a plain white page book - when did this qualify as a VSL, it might as well be a dictionary. Try not to be rude archi, I know you find it hard, but give it a try, eh? Now, if you read what was posted "which is a plain white book symbolic of their belief system" See that word 'symbolic'?
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Post by maximus on Nov 27, 2008 2:08:27 GMT
"which is a plain white book symbolic of their belief system" See that word 'symbolic'? Symbolic indeed. Which is why, as a Wiccan High priest, I had no problem taking my OB on a King James bible. The symbol must not be mistaken for that which it symbolizes.
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Post by brandt on Nov 27, 2008 4:48:13 GMT
The map is not the road. The map is simply a path that is illustrated by some rough symbols.
brandt
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Post by teddyballgame on Nov 27, 2008 10:20:52 GMT
Hello and welcome.I strongly advise you not to lie. Be true to yourself. One of the main things to remember is that trust is very important. I am an Atheist myself. There are plenty of Masonic orders that do allow Atheists. The Grand Orient of the USA George Washington Union Le Droit Humain USA M.E.A.P.R.M.M. Good luck with your search. "The Grand Orient of the USA George Washington Union Le Droit Humain USA M.E.A.P.R.M.M." Which Grand Orient Lodge do you belong to? You seem to cover a wide spectrum of orders. the Grand Orient of the United States is a male obedience as far as I have read?
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Post by penfold on Nov 27, 2008 11:19:53 GMT
teddy - I read that as a list of obediences in the US that accept those who do not express a beliefe in a SB, not a list of obediences that delux is a member of
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Post by brandt on Dec 2, 2008 3:14:02 GMT
Brother, That says nothing other than members of that body have to reject any Scottish Rite Mason not of that body or recognized by that body. It does not imply in the least that there are not others, just that members of that body have to reject them.
There are Scottish Rite bodies that have not changed the degrees/grades to such a point that the "degree" can simply "retired" and turned into a play that can be shown to the Order of the Eastern Star. Regardless, none of this has anything to do with the question of this thread.
Brandt
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