giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Sept 29, 2006 18:50:18 GMT
I fully agree with you.
BTW, are you Finnish?
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Post by corab on Sept 29, 2006 20:18:26 GMT
I fully agree with you. BTW, are you Finnish? Turkish, I think -- judging by the website.
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 29, 2006 22:52:18 GMT
Hi Ordo!! Welcome to the MFoL!! ;D
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Sept 30, 2006 0:31:26 GMT
BTW, are you Finnish?
He's certainly stopped by now.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Sept 30, 2006 3:19:17 GMT
In Rome, some months ago, there was a conference of European grand lodges. Addressing himself to the east European newbies, bro Thomas Jackson warned them not to repeat the mistake made by USA Freemasonry, that sought for quantity discarding the quality, so missing both.
Bro Jackson is the executive secretary of the regular ggll world committee.
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Post by maat on Oct 2, 2006 23:31:55 GMT
I hope the next step is NOT gonna be handing out the password, grips etc... in broshures. ... seriously - what difference would it make? On the up side - I could probably see that it might sort some of the wheat from the chaff. 'If I don't know any more than anybody else - why am I here' sort of stuff. Of course I am not advocating that we advertise p.... g.... t..... - but sometimes I feel they feed the superiority factor - thus inducing a chasm between those learning to serve and those that we are supposed to be serving. Maat
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Post by maat on Oct 2, 2006 23:37:37 GMT
Exercises for change... For a period of three months let's reverse the usual roles Thinkers must do.. Doers must think.. (Movers, sit still! Shakers, diet ;D) Maat
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Oct 3, 2006 13:30:55 GMT
Say what you like about Shakers - they make great chairs.
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Post by ORDO on Oct 21, 2006 9:23:05 GMT
well since the subject has already been changed; let me tell you another thing now. yesterday i was just a regular MM and today i was in the SR reunion so now im 14th degree SR M. and guess what am i gonna be tomorrow? 32th SR M...
so yeah here is the question now... what do u think about the "2 days 32.nd degree M.s"? I personally am against to this but this is the way here. so let me get your comments on this but please dont forget that i personally am against to this much QUALITY DECREASE
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Oct 21, 2006 21:22:18 GMT
I think we are running toward the abyss.
This way of acting is quite against Nature, which does not proceed by leaps. A baby needs 9 months to be born and Rome was not made in few days. Things must be earned with personal sacrifice. Advancement in knowledge is progressive, degree's teachings must be pondered carefully, if one wishes to assimilate them.
I remember bro. Disney's movie Fantasia - Tchaikovsky's music was the wonderful sound-track! - wherein Mickey Mouse was the sorcerer-apprentice who freed the brooms and was therefore beaten by them, being unable to keep them under his control.
Everything has a price in the life; I am afraid we shall pay a very expensive one to put order one day!
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Post by Liberty on Oct 22, 2006 3:26:24 GMT
Bro. Ordo,
I just took a glance at your site and it looks like a worthy effort. I especially enjoyed the Masonic art section. I agree with the substance of your post however I believe in some instances things are already changing for the better. The fact that we are using a new medium of technology to communicate on this forum is one instance of change or perhaps you could say "a ripple on the pond".
As an (American) Mason I'm not a fan of the "one day classes" and not all states in the US will adopt them. My main concern is that the candidate does not get to "experience" the degrees as one would when taking them individually. However I know (and know of) a few Brothers who have gone through these classes. One who went through a few years ago is now the Master of his Lodge. He recently wrote an article in the "California Freemason" about the importance of masonry in his life.
I don't have any statistics handy but I suspect quality individuals who find Freemasonry appealing will continue to be involved no matter what their means of entry. I did my degrees in three months but would have happily went longer as I knew the first night that this was something for me. I also had the benefit of having two Brothers instructing me through my catechisms that had a combined 90 years of masonic experience. They were patient and went out of their way to see I received proper instruction.
It's regrettable that you heard Brothers laughing the night you took your EA and more regrettable that the Master didn't put a stop to it. I too have seen this happen. This is something that could be quashed if Brethren would realize why they are in a Lodge to begin with. The opening ceremony of the Lodge should put the Brethren in the mind frame of solemn dignity....
The thought of smaller Lodges and less Masons does not scare me. I do not worry about the numbers. My hope is that those that come are there for the right reasons. Like Ma'at commented "seperate the wheat from the chaff".
Also on that note as Bro. Manly P. Hall once wrote it does not matter if someone stood on a roof top yelling the "secrets" of Freemasonry it does not matter as they can do no real harm to the Craft as we know where a person is truly made a Mason and where the true "secrets" of the Craft lay. Altough with regards to p...g....t and other aspects of degree work I feel they should remain "unadvertised" with regards to mystery and integrity of Masons keeping their obligations.
As Bro. Gio says "knowledge is progressive; degrees teachings must be pondered carefully" or his (rather poetic) "a baby needs 9 months to be born and Rome was not made in a few days" Herein lies the answer; it's up to each mason to lay his stone onto the mortar and build a stronger foundation for his fellow workman and those who will be working long after we are gone.
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Post by Liberty on Oct 22, 2006 3:42:55 GMT
There are those who do not imitate, Who cannot imitate
But then there are those who emulate
At times, to expand further the light of an original glow.
Knowing that to imitate the living is mockery
And to imitate the dead is robbery
There are those who are beings complete unto themselves
Whole, undaunted---a source As leaves of grass, as stars
As mountains, alike, alike, alike Yet alike
Each is complete and contained and as each unalike star shines
Each ray of light is forever gone
To leave way for a new ray and a new ray, as from a fountain
Complete unto itself, full, flowing.
So are some souls like stars and thier words, works, and songs
Like strong, quick flashes of light from a brillant, erupting cone.
So where are your mountains to match some men?
Man can rhyme the tick of time
The edge of pain, the what of sane
And comprehend the good in men, the bad in men
Can feel the hate of fight, the love of right and the creep of blight
at the speed of light
The pain of dawn, the gone of gone
The end of friend, the end of end by math of trend
What grip to hold what he is told
How long to hold, how strong to hold how much to hold of what is told.
And know The yield of rend; the break of bend
The scar of mend
I'm proud to say I know it
Here-in is a poet And lots of other things.
Johnny Cash,
American Poet
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Post by taylorsman on Oct 22, 2006 11:12:39 GMT
Beautifully put , Bro Liberty! We don't have ODCs (Thank God!) but do suffer from a surfeit of Charitable Social Clubbery. I have also heard chattering in Lodge during Ceremonies and when Master of my Lodge 11 years ago iI once gavelled and called for silence when it was taking place during an Initiation.
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Post by corab on Oct 22, 2006 18:17:25 GMT
Ps: Sorry about my English. It is my 3rd languege. I wish everybody gets the point. Forget the language, Bro:. Ordo -- we were all first made in our hearts, and that's where you're speaking from. This is the 3rd time in quick succession I hear from a Bro:. how different things are in their jurisdiction. The first time I heard a Bro:. tell me his Brn:. had laughed and chattered during an Initiation I thought he was pulling my leg. Regrettably, not so. The second time, I was told Brn:. would happily discuss non-Masonic matters during Lodge, and again I was shocked. Exactly what does it mean to these people when the WSW is asked what our first care as Freemasons is? And how inconsiderate (and opposite to showing Brotherly love) can you get -- laughing during an Initiation? I assisted at an Initiation yesterday, and the various Officers, drawn from 3-4 different sister Lodges, were struggling with their ritual. Was there laughter? No. Were there any signs of disrespect? No. Would we do that to our new Bro:.? Not a chance. Even when she left the Lodge to restore herself to her personal comforts, we remained quiet and reverent, and that's the way it's supposed to be. Having said all that, I do not believe the 1-day IPR phenomenon is to blame for that. You can take all the time in the world to go through your degrees, but if your Brn:. don't lead by example, you're not going to learn a thing about Lodge etiquette and the proper reverence and dignity with which to behave yourself in Lodge. And you're sure as heck not going to learn all this if your RWM allows the chatter and laughter to happen. Bottom line: we all have a responsibility in Lodge. Once the Lodge proves close tyled, the outside world stays just there: outside, and our full attention must be focussed on the work at hand, always and ever in all humility and reverence to TGAOTU, and in full respect and consideration for our Brn:. S:.M:.I:.B:.! S&F, Cora
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Post by maat on Oct 22, 2006 22:48:50 GMT
Bottom line: we all have a responsibility in Lodge. Once the Lodge proves close tyled, the outside world stays just there: outside, and our full attention must be focussed on the work at hand, always and ever in all humility and reverence to TGAOTU, and in full respect and consideration for our Brn:. S:.M:.I:.B:.!
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Post by ORDO on Oct 23, 2006 9:44:15 GMT
Perfect, Perfect, Perfect comments Brethren. Thanks to all of you. You guys are telling exacly what i would love to tell but cant put them in sentences. By the way, i see some Female faces arround here and i would like to ask if they are """Masons""" or sisters (ladies, rainbows, daughters)
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Post by ariel on Oct 23, 2006 9:59:51 GMT
Dear Ordo, As a female and newish member, I will find a Lodge (co/or all female) and be Initiated. How long the process will take is another matter altogether. What puzzles me is the way you phrased your question: " ...are they "Masons" or sisters (ladies,rainbows,daughters"). This is somewhat upsetting because female Masons are still a No-No to a lot of male Masons and it appears that you are not aware of co-Masonry or female Masonry. I would appreciated your views on on the subject of female Masons. Kind regards, Ariel
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Post by munkholt on Oct 23, 2006 12:05:02 GMT
By the way, i see some Female faces arround here and i would like to ask if they are """Masons""" or sisters (ladies, rainbows, daughters) This is probably a separate thread. But I think it's fair to say that the concensus on this board is that freemasons are freemasons, no matter their colour, creed, gender, etc. – as CoraB reminded us recently, they were all made so, first, in their heart. Whether the female mason is called "sister" or "brother" depends upon the constitution/obediance. OES, Daughters and Rainbows on the other hand are not Masons, and do not claim to be. Edit: cross-posted with Steve Foley.
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Post by taylorsman on Oct 23, 2006 12:05:15 GMT
A Freemason is a Freemason as far as I am concerned. I am not in the slightest bit interested in their biological sex or gender orientation. I consider Cora as an example to be a Fellowcraft Freemason, and Past MasterChris to be a PM like myself. That they are women is irrelevant to me in this context.
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Post by maat on Oct 23, 2006 23:46:51 GMT
Good Morning Ordo I agree with you wholeheartely that there are some things which need to be changed. Being in a female body I am empathetic to the female point of view. With regards to female masons ... before Spirit was differentiated (Eden?) it was One with the All, Father/Mother God. For whatever reason, it seems we chose to pass through the pillars of polarity (J & B) to 'experience' Earth/Matter, that is, we ate from the fruit of the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This was when we became Hu-Man kind and Sons of the Widow, Matter. Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of Man Unfortunately, because it seems most people take the Eden story literally, they blame poor old eve for all their troubles (this is probably why we are designated the title wo(e)man.) IMO - Male Freemasonry, in eternal terms, is a recent innovation. And as we expanded from a point of unity to multiplicity, if we wish to return to the Unity we would be wise to embrace that which we think is separate. "The symbolism of spirit as masculine and matter as feminine must be apprehended and rationalized as symbolism purely, and not tied to any reference to men and women in their personal identities. It is as gross a folly to think that because spirit is typed by the king, a male, every man is therefore a lord of spiritual light, as it is to make the error which the world has come all too close to doing, that because matter is typified by goddesses and women figures, every woman is therefore sunk in material aims. The mind or soul in each is sexless." -Alvin Boyd Kuhn www-personal.usyd.edu.au/~apert/kuhn.htmlThe Builders of the Temple here on Earth (As Above, So Below) are then necessarily both male and female. What is the use of a brick if you have no cement? Maat
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