jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Aug 19, 2007 8:27:14 GMT
?? "let's kill this one..." I fail to understand this comment. Basically, if it refers to a request to have the thread closed, then on what grounds? As long as there are members who wish to contribute and add to the discussion, it will continue. When no-one bothers replying, it will progressively be pushed down. The main thing I find fascinating is part of the opening comment, which says "I know the Grand Lodge of Florida will say it will be a clandestine Lodge if we do open a Lodge in Florida" ...and why I find it fascinating is that there appears to be an increasing desire - by Master Masons - to be able to meet together as Masons without the restrictions added to Masonry by various GLs. If anything, this comment effectively recognises that it may be considered 'clandestine' by one's own GL, and yet the possibility is considered perhaps worthy of being pursued. This is what GLs will have to increasingly realise, that unless movement towards variety an diversity opens within, it will simply disintegrate to having increasing numbers of so-called 'clandestine' Lodges. [...and please, no communal pressure that "we've [whoever the 'we' are] had it with this, let's stop the thread".]
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 19, 2007 9:35:36 GMT
Yes Bro JMD, I see the hand of censorship from Dixiemason.
If the Admins/Mods feel there is reason to close this thread I am sure they will do so, otherwise unless it runs out of steam and sinks to the bottom of the pond it should remain.
There are threads I might not like but I will simply ignore them after perhaps having stated my case if I feel I have a case to me made on the topic.
One a purely personal basis I wish Bro Blackadder well and hope he and his Brethren can achieve what they require.
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Post by Blackadder on Aug 19, 2007 11:08:18 GMT
Brothers I thank you for your support,I talked extensively with fellow brothers yesterday on what direction we would like the Lodge move in. The brothers in question two of them are over seventy years old and none are from the south and one is a PM from New Jersey,so its not new Master Masons who want change because they just feel like it or don't understand Masonry, its really about the way Freemasonry is run in the USA particularly the South. Dixie,"Please don't take this as rude condescending" but your comment about about "Lets kill this one" if typical of the attitude of Masonry in Florida,but I am really glad you made the comment, it shows the "Enlightened and informed" Brothers of this forum what Free thinking Masons are up against in the USA. The United States was founded by Free thinking men who wanted to change there country for the better and good of the people,not by some puritanical group of men who were stuck in the past.
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Post by tws on Aug 19, 2007 13:39:47 GMT
Brothers I thank you for your support,I talked extensively with fellow brothers yesterday on what direction we would like the Lodge move in. The brothers in question two of them are over seventy years old and none are from the south and one is a PM from New Jersey,so its not new Master Masons who want change because they just feel like it or don't understand Masonry, its really about the way Freemasonry is run in the USA particularly the South. Dixie,"Please don't take this as rude condescending" but your comment about about "Lets kill this one" if typical of the attitude of Masonry in Florida,but I am really glad you made the comment, it shows the "Enlightened and informed" Brothers of this forum what Free thinking Masons are up against in the USA. The United States was founded by Free thinking men who wanted to change there country for the better and good of the people,not by some puritanical group of men who were stuck in the past. Yes, we who live in the South are racist , toothless, rednecks who live in trailer parks. Please.
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Post by leonardo on Aug 19, 2007 15:35:34 GMT
Brothers I thank you for your support,I talked extensively with fellow brothers yesterday on what direction we would like the Lodge move in. The brothers in question two of them are over seventy years old and none are from the south and one is a PM from New Jersey,so its not new Master Masons who want change because they just feel like it or don't understand Masonry, its really about the way Freemasonry is run in the USA particularly the South. Dixie,"Please don't take this as rude condescending" but your comment about about "Lets kill this one" if typical of the attitude of Masonry in Florida,but I am really glad you made the comment, it shows the "Enlightened and informed" Brothers of this forum what Free thinking Masons are up against in the USA. The United States was founded by Free thinking men who wanted to change there country for the better and good of the people,not by some puritanical group of men who were stuck in the past. Yes, we who live in the South are racist , toothless, rednecks who live in trailer parks. Please. With respect, I don't think this is what Blackadder was saying.
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Post by brandt on Aug 19, 2007 18:34:30 GMT
Brother Blackadder, Let none deter you from your course with anything other than reason and logic and even then you must predentially determine the value of the information you receive. It is pretty clear that you understand where you would like to go in Masonry. That being said that are impediments to that course. You can try to change or remove those impediments, good luck, but if you are not able you are presented with another choice. You can sit back quietly and just "live with it", or join all of the other Masonic bodies in your state (which may or may not be disappointing but definitely lighten the load of your wallet). You can just walk away never to return and become a statistic that may or may not be ignored. Your other option is to enter one of those "clandestine" bodies. There are most likely other choices as well but you are closer to your situation than I am. You seem very sharp so I am sure that you will make the decision that is best for you.
Fraternally, Brandt
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Post by tws on Aug 19, 2007 18:44:56 GMT
in. The brothers in question two of them are over seventy years old and none are from the south Implying that because none of them are from the South, they have more sense than we do. Implying that, as bad (in his opinion) Freemasonry is in the USA, it is particularly bad in the South. Implying that we in the USA are unenlightend and ignorant, and, by extention, that we are particularly so in the South. Perhaps that is not the way it was intended to come off, but there you go.
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Post by Blackadder on Aug 19, 2007 19:03:40 GMT
Brother tws, You are reading way too much into my comments about Masonry in the South.It would be different if I made comments about Masonry in the North or in UK as I have no first hand experinence on Masonry in either place ,so to make comments about Masonry in the South would be a proper thing to do as I live in the South!
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Post by matt on Aug 19, 2007 20:13:26 GMT
It is noble to want to improve the lodge that you are a part of, but that should not be the primary focus of any mason, especially a new one.
Masonry exists first and foremost to benefit the individuals. It is a magical tool to help individual masons improve their lives and transform their personality in accordance with Love. When this transformation occurs, it can not help but begin to transform those around you. However, the focus must be inward first.
A trap I fell into early in my masonic career was to shift the focus, and thereby the responsibility, off of myself and onto those around me. I found all the little faults with my lodge and the masons who surrounded me. And while I was noticing real problems within masonry, what good was I really doing? On an unconscious level, I was shifting responsibility so that I did not have to do what it takes to change myself. I could point the finger and begin to "help other people". Very little was accomplished during this phase of my masonic career. It wasn't until I turned my focus completely inward that my life (and environment) began to be affected. Theron Dunn's motto about masonry being about me changing me should become the universal masonic motto. When we change ourselves, our environment is affected automatically.
Sometimes this shift of focus inward may require less public activity in masonry. It is easy for the ego to get in the way, and seek recognition over personal growth. Just remember to obey the law of Love and the mortar that holds your lodge together will surely not be untempered.
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Post by Blackadder on Aug 19, 2007 21:03:43 GMT
Brother Matt, I discussed this with a Brother today that it is very easy to point out the negative in anything and it become all consuming and you lose focus. As a Scot I am very passionate about what I believe,but I have to remember to "subdue my passions and improve myself in Masonry" easier said than done sometimes. As I said before I am an Officer in our Lodge,my good friend and Brother who is also an officer said to me today 'why don't we leave the line and concentrate on helping the new Brothers with Masonic education and some form of mentoring?" Our Lodge prides themselves on doing a great job with degree work and we do,do a great job.The only thing about doing degree work is it becomes very demanding and it ends up you are going to Lodge twice a week sometimes three times a week depending on when the normal meetings are. And being an officer we are the first to be asked to participate in degree work.
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Post by penfold on Aug 19, 2007 21:33:23 GMT
If the Admins/Mods feel there is reason to close this thread I am sure they will do so. Exactly right, bro Lauderdale, and its not being closed, please continue!
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 19, 2007 22:12:51 GMT
Well, here you go.... It seems that the Mother Hight Council of the World has just been opened for business here in the USA. www.rgle.org.uk/index.htmlAs of Aug. 18th you can all go get American charters from these other clandestine groups claiming to be "The governing body of Craft Freemasonry" .....How silly.
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Post by maat on Aug 19, 2007 23:48:39 GMT
Well, here you go.... It seems that the Mother Hight Council of the World has just been opened for business here in the USA. www.rgle.org.uk/index.htmlAs of Aug. 18th you can all go get American charters from these other clandestine groups claiming to be "The governing body of Craft Freemasonry" .....How silly. The Grand Master is the His Royal Highness Philippe Paul Alexandre Henry The Prince of Araucania, KES, OCS, KCA I have to admit when I read this I thought of Margaret Rutherford, Peter Sellars, et al... Is this for real? Info on Araucania.. www.geocities.com/tourtoirac/Couple.htmwww.geocities.com/tourtoirac/Maat
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 20, 2007 0:10:23 GMT
LOL!!!
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Post by brandt on Aug 20, 2007 1:38:03 GMT
Just as valid as any other "ruler of the Craft."
Brandt
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Post by calvin on Aug 20, 2007 2:03:10 GMT
A trap I fell into early in my masonic career was to shift the focus, and thereby the responsibility, off of myself and onto those around me. I found all the little faults with my lodge and the masons who surrounded me. And while I was noticing real problems within masonry, what good was I really doing? On an unconscious level, I was shifting responsibility so that I did not have to do what it takes to change myself. I could point the finger and begin to "help other people". Very little was accomplished during this phase of my masonic career. It wasn't until I turned my focus completely inward that my life (and environment) began to be affected. Theron Dunn's motto about masonry being about me changing me should become the universal masonic motto. When we change ourselves, our environment is affected automatically. [shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300] Well said, Bro Matt! [/glow][/shadow]
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 20, 2007 5:27:30 GMT
...I furthermore promise... to obey....bylaws and edicts...
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Post by leonardo on Aug 20, 2007 7:23:38 GMT
Well, here you go.... It seems that the Mother Hight Council of the World has just been opened for business here in the USA. www.rgle.org.uk/index.htmlAs of Aug. 18th you can all go get American charters from these other clandestine groups claiming to be "The governing body of Craft Freemasonry" .....How silly. The Grand Master is the His Royal Highness Philippe Paul Alexandre Henry The Prince of Araucania, KES, OCS, KCA I have to admit when I read this I thought of Margaret Rutherford, Peter Sellars, et al... Is this for real? Info on Araucania.. www.geocities.com/tourtoirac/Couple.htmwww.geocities.com/tourtoirac/Maat That'll teach you Nice work Maat.
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jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Aug 20, 2007 8:00:44 GMT
Again, lucky for UGLE that edicts that 'forbade' visitations to the rival GL at the time were treated with the due respect they deserved.
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Post by parisfred on Aug 20, 2007 8:07:30 GMT
Often freemasonry was improved by innovation and disobedience,
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