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Post by Blackadder on Aug 16, 2007 3:12:22 GMT
I am a Master Mason from Florida USA,I was raised in December 2006.I am currently the Jnr. Steward in my lodge.I don't know if you know anything about lodges in USA ,to cut a long story short they are dying a slow and painful death,we as Masons are not allowed to do anything in the lodges ,no Masonic education to speak of,no alcohol.no raffles,no games of chance ,you name it and we are not allowed to do it.A great number of the newer Master Masons have become disgruntled with the situation here in Florida. I am originally from Dundee Scotland and know a great number of Masons in the Tayside area who visit Florida and they are stunned that we have such a big lodge and nothing is permitted. Here is my big question ,would it be possible to open a Scottish Constitution Lodge in Florida? I know the Grand Lodge of Florida will say it will be a clandestine Lodge if we do open a Lodge in Florida,but a great number of States still don't recognize Prince Hall Masons,which is a disgrace as I have met a great number of Prince Hall Masons here in Orlando who are upright men and Masons.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 16, 2007 4:14:59 GMT
Please don't take this as rude, or condescending.. You will probably have great difficulty starting a Lodge under any regular Grand Lodge. Even between Grand Lodges that don't "recognize" one another, there is a certain amity between them that will make your effort almost impossible. Now, if you want to declare yourself as Grand Master of the Blackadder Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, then you can create your own charter... I greatly admire your zeal for the Craft. And, if I understand your true objective, it stems from an emotion of impending doom to an organization in which you have just recently been accepted.. Don't worry! The Craft has existed for a very long time! It has seen many cycles... Your lodge might be losing members faster than it gains them... right now, my lodge is the opposite.. It is about quality, not quantity. Of course there has to be a "critical mass" in order for any system to work, but we have never dropped below that point. I was the same way shortly after I was raised, but I have since rid myself of the fear that our Craft will cease to exist any time soon. As far as gambling, and drinking, and other vices,.... Georgia is the same way. If we used those reasons to join our ranks, what would we be? Don't worry about losing members..... And PLEASE do not try to attract new members with VICE! This is not the Lion's Club, the Elk's Lodge, the Rotary Club,etc.... This is Freemasonry! ;D " It is to distinguish you from the world at large, and Mark your consequence among the Craft..."(that's what we say in Georgia anyway..)
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Post by maat on Aug 16, 2007 6:28:11 GMT
Please don't take this as rude, or condescending.. ...which probably means it could be.... Please explain. Do you think a few fellows sharing an ale is a vice? And hopefully one way of doing this is by remaining on the level and being accepting and kind to others no matter what faults they may have yet to master. Maat
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Post by maat on Aug 16, 2007 6:37:43 GMT
Just had another thought about these words of yours
Re Freemasonry ... "It is to distinguish you from the world at large"
Hmm I'm not sure that statement is true. My take would be that IF you practice the craft you will eventually change the world for the better. You will leave your mark on it.
And I have heard that the more Light you attain the more you will be content to step out of the limelight and into the shadows, a selfless person who is content to do good for goods sake and the love of God.
I also think that when you start 'really' helping the helpless etc, you will discover many a saint in disguise. So the world at large may not be as bad as it seems on the surface.
Maat
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 16, 2007 6:38:29 GMT
Yep!
That is exactly what I am saying...
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 16, 2007 6:39:57 GMT
It's ALL GOOD!
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bod
Member
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Post by bod on Aug 16, 2007 6:42:20 GMT
Seems to be a Prohibition hangover, but a lot of americans appear to equate alcohol with bad. Fortunately we don't have such puritanical leanings in the old country.....or in the upside down bits of the world! (or the right way up bits, depending on your perspective!) Blackadder - there is a concept of territorial exclusivity where GL's are concerned, for some of the old empire locations, such as NZ you have lodges of the 'home' GL's GLoS, UGLE, GLoI, as well as lodges belonging to GLNZ, this is an arrangement that came about through history. The territorial exclusivity is something that has caused issue with the recognition of some PH GL's in the US, fortunately that little wrinkle is gradually being smoothed out, in the main. The potential of creating a new GLoS lodge in the territory of Grand Lodge of Florida is nil, neither GL will grant a warrant or permission for such a thing to happen. You will probably find it is far better, and less stressful, to work with someone like the MRF in creating a lodge that fulfils some of the needs of you and your fellow travellers. www.masonicrestoration.com/
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Post by maat on Aug 16, 2007 6:46:56 GMT
Blackadder, if Freemasonry demands anything of anyone, it is patience. If you don't have patience then maybe your quest for Light lies elsewhere. Freemasonry is a lifetime thingy... a little here, a little there... an occasional joyous ah-ha! and then some more... Re the recognition bit... my Lodge, which I love, does not recognise some other women's lodges, etc. We recognise UGLE, they don't recognise us. It can be frustrating. But we can only change things with patience and from within. This might be your 'big work' Maat
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 16, 2007 6:47:25 GMT
I disagree again. Submit to the authority of the lodge in which you were raised...
Don't let your ego get in the way..
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bod
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Post by bod on Aug 16, 2007 6:50:10 GMT
From Paul Bessell's site : The 40 (out of a total of 51 -- 78%) U.S. Grand Lodges listed below have adopted resolutions that say Prince Hall Masonry is "regular." Almost all of them (probably 38 of the 40) have adopted "full recognition," in the same sense they recognize any other Grand Lodge, some have granted recognition to the extent of permitting intervisitation but not dual memberships (this is almost always requested by the Prince Hall Grand Lodges involved), and some have adopted resolutions recognizing a particular Prince Hall Grand Lodge subject to adoption of similar action by the Prince Hall Grand Lodge involved. bessel.org/masrec/pha.htm
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 16, 2007 10:51:32 GMT
This is interesting as when in UGLE my complaint was that there was too much of the Social Side, such as Raffles at the Festive Board (Meal) after the Meeting.
Over here we have never had Prohibition and most Masonic Temples in England have their own licensed bar.
In Le Driot Humain we don't have a bar at our Meeting Places but most Lodges will have some bottles of wine at the Festive Board, which in our case is a buffet, after the Meeting. Some of us go for a fuller meal with alcoholic drinks for those who wish after the Meeting.
Bro Blackadder, I hope you can find a Lodge which has customs closer to what you wish. Are all Lodges in your State Prohibitionist or could you demit from your current Lodge, in which you appear to be unhappy and join one of a more "liberal" nature? It is not a question of "Ego" but of finding a Masonic affiliation to which you are suited and which is suited to you, there is no point in remaining in one when you are at variance with some of its customs and you are unhappy therein.
I wish you well in your quest.
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bod
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Post by bod on Aug 16, 2007 11:02:26 GMT
I think most, if not all, US GL's demand that no alcohol is available at masonic temples. I'll see if I can find the blurb I found before explaining why...as long as work doesn't get int he way!
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bod
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Post by bod on Aug 16, 2007 11:35:26 GMT
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Post by corab on Aug 16, 2007 12:01:58 GMT
I disagree again. Submit to the authority of the lodge in which you were raised... Authority comes with responsibility. If the "authority" fails in its responsibility, then to hell with "authority", but I'll challenge it. This, again, has to do with responsibility. I am co-responsible for the well-being of my lodge, so if I find something wrong, and after due consideration from many different angles continue to find it so, then I have a responsibility to speak up. There's no such thing as blind obedience in FREE-masonry -- at least there shouldn't be. Challenge everything, most of all yourself!
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 16, 2007 12:22:15 GMT
If the GL of Arkansas rules were applied in UGLE I can think of thousands of Pub Landlords , Wine and Spirit Merchants, even Shopkeepers, etc who would no longer be able to be members of Lodges. Thankfully more sensible ideas prevail here in the UK. I have only seen a couple of people drunk at a Lodge Meetings. In both cases they were ushered out, put in a taxi home and both apologised to their Lodge and that was the end of the matter.
I agree with Bro Cora, and to my mind one should only submit to God and in a Democracy to the Law of the Land.
I have to say it, from what I have read here and elsewhere on the web, Freemasonry in the USA would appear to be far too authoritarian for my personality and I doubt I would ever have joined a Lodge in the USA
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Post by tws on Aug 16, 2007 12:58:38 GMT
If the GL of Arkansas rules were applied in UGLE I can think of thousands of Pub Landlords , Wine and Spirit Merchants, even Shopkeepers, etc who would no longer be able to be members of Lodges. Thankfully more sensible ideas prevail here in the UK. I have only seen a couple of people drunk at a Lodge Meetings. In both cases they were ushered out, put in a taxi home and both apologised to their Lodge and that was the end of the matter. I agree with Bro Cora, and to my mind one should only submit to God and in a Democracy to the Law of the Land. I have to say it, from what I have read here and elsewhere on the web, Freemasonry in the USA would appear to be far too authoritarian for my personality and I doubt I would ever have joined a Lodge in the USA We're not so bad. I only drink occasionaly anyway (type 2 diabetes) so I don't miss it. There's plenty beer and harder stuff to be had outside of Lodge.
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Post by brandt on Aug 16, 2007 13:21:03 GMT
Submit no matter what the issue is? If there is a matter in which conscience and the rules are in opposition one must make a decision and discarding one's ethics or conscience is not a good option.
Brandt
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bod
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Post by bod on Aug 16, 2007 13:33:26 GMT
Lets not get things out of proportion, Blackadder is in a situation that many of us have found ourselves on joining masonry, enthusiastic, keen to learn, but up against an older, more conservative generation who can be quite resistant to change, its not as if they are advocating horse-whippings or anything extreme, just there isn't 'enough' there for BA. My personal view is change things slowly, and only once you have understood why things are the way they are in your part of the world. Change can be made to happen, but it has to be for a good reason, not just 'because'.
I still feel MRF is the way forward for him.
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Post by brandt on Aug 16, 2007 14:58:10 GMT
MRF may well be a good choice. For some reason it is a difficult path indeed as there is a good deal of resistance to it in some quarters.
Brandt
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Post by waynecowley on Aug 16, 2007 15:15:17 GMT
If the GL of Arkansas rules were applied in UGLE I can think of thousands of Pub Landlords , Wine and Spirit Merchants, even Shopkeepers, etc who would no longer be able to be members of Lodges. What about those of us who are de facto licensees for our masonic halls as I am as Secretary of the Masonic Club? Wayne
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