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Post by corab on Jun 5, 2008 22:17:35 GMT
Wow; what an awesome site -- thanks for sharing, Prom! ;D
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 5, 2008 22:29:48 GMT
"Freemasonry is not a religion" This is often said but let us think about it for a while. With an open and rational mind. I believed (for a long time) with all that I knew how in Christianity. I believed in "faith." Then I became a Freemason. Masonic ritual really taught me how to use my mind in a rational and reasonable manner. Doing so lead me to examine the Bible in the same manner. The end result was that realization the Bible is just a very poor work of episodic fiction. Freemasonry directly lead me to God's (the G.A.O.T.U. the creator, not the man made Biblical God) natural religion. Free from dogma and the absurdity of second hand revalation. Freemasonry does not offer a path to salvation? I might argue with that. It certainly was a conduit twards my salvation from faith. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 5, 2008 22:32:11 GMT
I've have come to believe that the Holy Bible, like so many other truly Holy Texts, " contains" the Word of G-d. The evidence is overwhelming for this conclusion. I see no reason to believe that. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by hollandr on Jun 5, 2008 22:40:54 GMT
>I see no reason to believe that.
Perhaps it is not so much a matter of reason but of experiencing particular qualities.
I like the feel of the statement about a man walking humbly with his god. (Lovely theological implications as well)
And I rather like the bit about: ye are gods all these things ye shall do and greater
And I particularly like the bit where the Lord (Adonai) is cut down to size by The Most High who only gives him the Israelites as his lot
So in my view there is lots of chaff and some grain
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 22:47:15 GMT
No. Salvation is a religious proposition. My faith teaches me that my salvation comes from my faith in Christ. Masonry is completely silent on this issue as it is a religious concept. Next question? yep. are you shure ? how about this ? The Masonic Lodge claims to be a fraternal organization and denies that Freemasonry is a religion. Yet, the Masonic Lodge teaches a plan of salvation which does not require faith in Jesus Christ. As a Master Mason, you are in a position to know that this is true on a firsthand basis. You have participated in Masonic rituals which teach salvation without Jesus and you have probably watched as others have been conducted through the rituals. What does the ritual teach about salvation? In the Entered Apprentice Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What covering has a Lodge?" The Senior Warden answers: A clouded canopy or star-decked heavens, where all good Masons hope at last to arrive. . . During the Master Mason Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What is meant by the three steps usually delineated on the Master's Carpet?" The following answer is given by the Senior Warden: . . .as Fellow Crafts, we should apply our knowledge to the discharge of our respective duties to God, our neighbors, and ourselves; so that, in Age, as Master Masons, we may enjoy the happy reflections consequent on a well-spent life, and die in the hope of a glorious immortality. When you portrayed Hiram Abiff, the Worshipful Master offered a prayer just before you (as Hiram Abiff) were "raised" from the dead. His prayer ended with these words: Yet, O Lord! have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation. Amen. At the close of the Legend of the Third Degree. The Senior Warden said: Then, finally my brethren, let us imitate our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, in his virtuous conduct, his unfeigned piety to God, and his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that, like him, we may welcome the grim tyrant, Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent by our Supreme Grand Master, to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. The following explanation of the meaning of the Legend of the Third Degree is found on page 96 of Albert Mackey’s Manual of the Lodge: It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. . .to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution. . . .and the conclusion we arrive at is, that youth, properly directed, leads us to the honorable and virtuous maturity, and that the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded at its closing hour by the prospect of eternal bliss. . . .the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation. Masonry teaches that Master Masons, as a group, may die in the hope of a glorious immortality, that they represent those raised from the grave of iniquity and that they have been redeemed from the death of sin. Masonry is teaching that Master Masons have salvation! |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 22:50:18 GMT
sorry, but in fact, i have no time to respond to all posts adequately But of course you do. It's a simple matter of prioritising, of chosing what to respond to and in how much detail. You choose conflict, confrontation. You choose to spend time searching unreliable sources and quoting from them. You choose to spend time citing scripture to us. You say you are here to testify your faith -- I doubt that. All you have shown us so far is a desire to off-load your internal conflict onto some scapegoat under the guise of testifying your faith. You're not testifying your faith -- you're testifying your fear, your anger, your inability to face up to the truth you know to be within you. You don't have to live your life like this. You choose to. keep on going.... |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 22:52:22 GMT
if not, then the bible is nonsense, and Jesus came to earth to die for nothing as well. Anyway. Feel free to believe the way you think is o.k. Jesus died for our sins, there is no doubt of this. But do you actually know the sin that caused this? of course i do. Do you ? go ahead.... |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 22:55:09 GMT
elshamah, I've read every link you've posted, including the one's that are proven and admitted (by their very authors) to be hoaxes. Have you read the single paper I asked you to read where I address these very questions? Again, it's in the Papers and Articles Section on this board, and is entitled "My personal response" It involved my several months of research as an Evangelical Christian who became a Master Mason. I think it would certainly save you some time to see someone of your faith who actually went through the process rather than standing on the "outside" and casting accusations that you have no knowledge of whatsoever. Just a thought. well... you might have read all links i posted. however, i have not seen a adequate answer to the last one : www.biblebb.com/files/J94-52-1.HTM |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 22:57:13 GMT
elshamah, I've read every link you've posted, including the one's that are proven and admitted (by their very authors) to be hoaxes. Have you read the single paper I asked you to read where I address these very questions? Again, it's in the Papers and Articles Section on this board, and is entitled "My personal response" It involved my several months of research as an Evangelical Christian who became a Master Mason. I think it would certainly save you some time to see someone of your faith who actually went through the process rather than standing on the "outside" and casting accusations that you have no knowledge of whatsoever. Just a thought. Brother MP, What you are doing it asking for something from a person that he cannot possibly deliver. Most all of his posts are BULCRIT based. BULCRIT is a word that was coined many years ago to describe commentary and opinion that is offered as first hand knowledgeable experience but is continuously shown to be based on inaccurate and falsified second hand information that the author relies on to make such commentary due to lack of experience. The poster in question both does not know about Freemasonry and does not know about true Christianity. He is on the outside of both, screaming for light, in pain and blinded by his ignorance. Pray for his deliverence from darkness. P i don't remember , if you answered this question in the beginning. What is your main reason of being a freemason ? |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:02:37 GMT
I understand your concern. If I can honestly and forthrightly answer his questions and he still doesn't believe me, there's not much I can do. At this point, I fear he feels I fall into one of two camps: 1. I am a liar. 2. I am not truly "saved". It's a horrible situation called cognitive dissonance. If you have a dearly held belief, or are invested in a mindset, you will go to any lengths to hold it.. even when confronted with facts that you are wrong. This is the same reason people will see a loved one commit a crime and honestly believe that it did not happen. And, I fear, it's the same reason that elshamah will receive honest answers to every question he asks and still respond with "hmmm I don't know." I do know. I'm on the "inside" and I'm telling you it's factual. Of course YOU don't know. What you are saying "I don't know" to is "I don't know if this fact matches my pre-held prejudice". Very basic. Very predictable, but very sad to see. honestly, i hold on with my standpoint : You cannot be both Christian and a Mason. If you don't believe that, check out the references below. These are written by Christians and others who have investigated Masonry. They present supporting excerpts from official Masonic documents and references. Freemasonry - A Different Religion? www.biblebelievers.org.au/masindx.htmFreemasonry Corner www.cuttingedge.org/fmcorner.htmlWhy a Christian Reverend /Masonic Chaplain left Masonry www.cuttingedge.org/free004.htmlShould a Christian Be a Mason? www.lamblion.com/Web09-03.htmFreemasonry and the Christian (**Good descriptions**) www.mastersem.edu/journal/j5fie.htmWhat Should a Pastor Do About Freemasonry? www.biblebelievers.org.au/mason2.htmFreemasons in the Civil Rights Movement www.users.interport.net/~wovoka/freemaso.htm www.propheticalert.com/illuminati.htm |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:05:07 GMT
it does not import, what men made through the bible, since many bad things were made in the past in the name of God. It imports what God says through his word, the bible. 1:28 God blessed56 them and said57 to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it!58 Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that moves on the ground.”59 This incorporates clearly advance in sciene, exploration and use of all resources for our needs. God is FOR progress, not against. i remain with my assertion. There is absolutely no way, men to transform his NATURE, he can try whatever he wants. no philosophy, no religion, anything. Only one is able to do it : God himself. He can transform man, and give his holy spirit, so that someone, that is born again in Christ, is able to live in the spirit, not in flesh, slaved through his own nature. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual – but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin.21 7:15 For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want – instead, I do what I hate.22 7:16 But if I do what I don’t want, I agree that the law is good.23 7:17 But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. 7:18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it.24 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me.7:21 So, I find the law that when I want to do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God in my inner being. 7:23 But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members. 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 7:25 Thanks be25 to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then,26 I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but27 with my flesh I serve28 the law of sin.8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.1 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit2 in Christ Jesus has set you3 free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because4 it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.elshamah, basically all you have done with this thread that you have created, is quote the Bible and give well known anti-Masonic websites. I pity you because it is painfully obvious that you have no original thoughts. You quote from an allegorical book that many of us don't even consider valid and every argument that you present is from some other source. I can't speak for the others but it is people like you that reinforce that fact that I made the right decision to get as far away from organized religion as possible! I have to deal with radical, self-righteous people every day because I live in the Bible Belt of the USA. I pity them too, because they are being mind-controlled as you are. They proudly quote their memorized verses and when I ask them what they mean they quote other verses or they quote their pastor, etc. It is all very sad. I chose to become a Freemason because I enjoy using my mind by learning and growing philosophically, spiritually, and emotionally. I enjoy the free flow of ideas and exploring other cultures and philosophies without the restraints of dogmatic religion. If that makes you think that I worship Satan, so be it! It is none of my business what you think of me! That is pretty much the attitude I have taken with my Bible believing friends and neighbors. If they don't like what we are doing, that is just fine! You can go about your business and we can go about ours! Why you are here posting your second hand drivel is beyond me. Is this feeding some sort of sick perversion you have? does it make you feel superior to us? You don't see us going to the Christian forums and posting anti-Christian stuff, do you? No. And you won't because we respect your right to believe as you wish. And WE DON'T CARE!  Peace be with you and all the kindly, non-judgmental Christians of the world! what makes you think YOU are not mind controlled ? |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:09:05 GMT
I'm with Bro Leo on this. I would not let this person on The Chequered Pavement. (My Forum) I consider myself to be a Christian but of a quite different type to the Fundis. For a start I do NOT hold the Bible to be literally true but like all VSLs to no doubt have a degree of Divine Inspiration but mostly to be allegorical. Somehow I think the Jesus Christ I consider to be my Saviour and Guide to be a lot different to the one they follow. This for me is one of the wonderful thing about Freemasonry: we have some of the most intelligent, thoughtful and considerate Christians (and members of other faiths) within our community who can follow these different approaches, yet none will denounce another brother for not sharing their particular path.  well, i live very well as well with non-christians, and respect the faith and opinions of all. Also yours. Respect however does not mean, that i have to agree with it. |
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Post by droche on Jun 5, 2008 23:10:39 GMT
No. Salvation is a religious proposition. My faith teaches me that my salvation comes from my faith in Christ. Masonry is completely silent on this issue as it is a religious concept. Next question? yep. are you shure ? how about this ? The Masonic Lodge claims to be a fraternal organization and denies that Freemasonry is a religion. Yet, the Masonic Lodge teaches a plan of salvation which does not require faith in Jesus Christ. As a Master Mason, you are in a position to know that this is true on a firsthand basis. You have participated in Masonic rituals which teach salvation without Jesus and you have probably watched as others have been conducted through the rituals. What does the ritual teach about salvation? In the Entered Apprentice Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What covering has a Lodge?" The Senior Warden answers: A clouded canopy or star-decked heavens, where all good Masons hope at last to arrive. . . During the Master Mason Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What is meant by the three steps usually delineated on the Master's Carpet?" The following answer is given by the Senior Warden: . . .as Fellow Crafts, we should apply our knowledge to the discharge of our respective duties to God, our neighbors, and ourselves; so that, in Age, as Master Masons, we may enjoy the happy reflections consequent on a well-spent life, and die in the hope of a glorious immortality. When you portrayed Hiram Abiff, the Worshipful Master offered a prayer just before you (as Hiram Abiff) were "raised" from the dead. His prayer ended with these words: Yet, O Lord! have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation. Amen. At the close of the Legend of the Third Degree. The Senior Warden said: Then, finally my brethren, let us imitate our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, in his virtuous conduct, his unfeigned piety to God, and his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that, like him, we may welcome the grim tyrant, Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent by our Supreme Grand Master, to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. The following explanation of the meaning of the Legend of the Third Degree is found on page 96 of Albert Mackey’s Manual of the Lodge: It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. . .to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution. . . .and the conclusion we arrive at is, that youth, properly directed, leads us to the honorable and virtuous maturity, and that the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded at its closing hour by the prospect of eternal bliss. . . .the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation. Masonry teaches that Master Masons, as a group, may die in the hope of a glorious immortality, that they represent those raised from the grave of iniquity and that they have been redeemed from the death of sin. Masonry is teaching that Master Masons have salvation! Nothing you have written here indicates that Freemasonry teaches a plan of salvation. Everything you have written here merely indicates a belief and hope for immortality but not how to attain immortality. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:11:00 GMT
There is a really wonderful website that has a book called "World Scripture" located at www.unification.net/ws/ and is free by downloading. It is an awesome text comparing many world faiths and philosophies. I use it in a doctoral level comparative religion course that I teach.  I've have come to believe that the Holy Bible, like so many other truly Holy Texts, " contains" the Word of G-d. The evidence is overwhelming for this conclusion. How so? I look upon and experience G-d's world and I see that it affirms this to be so. I've also come to believe that a fair number of people are not, and will never be, wise enough to understand those Words contained therein. This is where enlightenment comes in really handy and why I delight in Masonry. ;D P well , i am in complete disagreement with you in this point. The truth, that corresponds with reality, is only one. Each religion teaches something different. It is obvious that not all answers can be correct. Only one can be correct. I believe only the bible is the true word of God. There are many reasons to think so. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:14:25 GMT
"Freemasonry is not a religion" This is often said but let us think about it for a while. With an open and rational mind. I believed (for a long time) with all that I knew how in Christianity. I believed in "faith." Then I became a Freemason. Masonic ritual really taught me how to use my mind in a rational and reasonable manner. Doing so lead me to examine the Bible in the same manner. The end result was that realization the Bible is just a very poor work of episodic fiction. Freemasonry directly lead me to God's (the G.A.O.T.U. the creator, not the man made Biblical God) natural religion. Free from dogma and the absurdity of second hand revalation. Freemasonry does not offer a path to salvation? I might argue with that. It certainly was a conduit twards my salvation from faith. www.godvsthebible.commight you give a look at this site then : www.emfj.org/mensclub.htm |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 5, 2008 23:18:58 GMT
yep. are you shure ? how about this ? The Masonic Lodge claims to be a fraternal organization and denies that Freemasonry is a religion. Yet, the Masonic Lodge teaches a plan of salvation which does not require faith in Jesus Christ. As a Master Mason, you are in a position to know that this is true on a firsthand basis. You have participated in Masonic rituals which teach salvation without Jesus and you have probably watched as others have been conducted through the rituals. What does the ritual teach about salvation? In the Entered Apprentice Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What covering has a Lodge?" The Senior Warden answers: A clouded canopy or star-decked heavens, where all good Masons hope at last to arrive. . . During the Master Mason Degree, the Worshipful Master asks, "What is meant by the three steps usually delineated on the Master's Carpet?" The following answer is given by the Senior Warden: . . .as Fellow Crafts, we should apply our knowledge to the discharge of our respective duties to God, our neighbors, and ourselves; so that, in Age, as Master Masons, we may enjoy the happy reflections consequent on a well-spent life, and die in the hope of a glorious immortality. When you portrayed Hiram Abiff, the Worshipful Master offered a prayer just before you (as Hiram Abiff) were "raised" from the dead. His prayer ended with these words: Yet, O Lord! have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation. Amen. At the close of the Legend of the Third Degree. The Senior Warden said: Then, finally my brethren, let us imitate our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff, in his virtuous conduct, his unfeigned piety to God, and his inflexible fidelity to his trust; that, like him, we may welcome the grim tyrant, Death, and receive him as a kind messenger sent by our Supreme Grand Master, to translate us from this imperfect to that all-perfect, glorious, and celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. The following explanation of the meaning of the Legend of the Third Degree is found on page 96 of Albert Mackey’s Manual of the Lodge: It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. . .to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution. . . .and the conclusion we arrive at is, that youth, properly directed, leads us to the honorable and virtuous maturity, and that the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded at its closing hour by the prospect of eternal bliss. . . .the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation. Masonry teaches that Master Masons, as a group, may die in the hope of a glorious immortality, that they represent those raised from the grave of iniquity and that they have been redeemed from the death of sin. Masonry is teaching that Master Masons have salvation! Nothing you have written here indicates that Freemasonry teaches a plan of salvation. Everything you have written here merely indicates a belief and hope for immortality but not how to attain immortality. i don't agree with you : It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. . .to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution. . . .and the conclusion we arrive at is, that youth, properly directed, leads us to the honorable and virtuous maturity, and that the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded at its closing hour by the prospect of eternal bliss. . . .the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation. |
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Post by hollandr on Jun 5, 2008 23:33:11 GMT
>what makes you think YOU are not mind controlled ?
Angelo
Here I think we get to the core of the issue
Any human who cannot control his or her own thoughts is wide open to mind control
And being unable to control the thoughts the human cannot prevent being programmed with the opposite thought
Hence the mind control may be covered over with wonderful thoughts of freedom and salvation
So are you able to control your own thoughts?
Would you like to test that - stop all thought for 30 seconds
Let me know how you get on
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Post by droche on Jun 5, 2008 23:34:05 GMT
Nothing you have written here indicates that Freemasonry teaches a plan of salvation. Everything you have written here merely indicates a belief and hope for immortality but not how to attain immortality. i don't agree with you : It was the single object of all the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. . .to teach the immortality of the soul. This is still the great design of the third degree of Masonry. This is the scope and aim of its ritual. The Master Mason represents man, when youth, manhood, old age, and life itself have passed away as fleeting shadows, yet raised from the grave of iniquity, and quickened into another and better existence. By its legend and all its ritual, it is implied that we have been redeemed from the death of sin and the sepulchre of pollution. . . .and the conclusion we arrive at is, that youth, properly directed, leads us to the honorable and virtuous maturity, and that the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded at its closing hour by the prospect of eternal bliss. . . .the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation. The only thing you have written that could possibly come close to being construed as a plan for salvation is "... the life of man, regulated by morality, faith, and justice, will be rewarded..." If you say that is a plan for salvation, so be it. I say it is a stretch to call it a plan. By the way, let's assume that it is a plan for salvation. If it in fact is, it doesn't seem to me that it is at variance with what Jesus Christ taught was the way to salvation, so I don't see why you would have a problem with it. (?) Additional edit: This just hit me and I don't know why I didn't pick up on it right away, but you also wrote: "the Master Mason represents a man saved from the grave of iniquity, and raised to the faith of salvation." That is just not true. That is not said or written anywhere in Masonic teachings or anything close to that. Master Masons are not taught that by virtue of their being Master Masons that they are saved from the grave of iniquity and raised to the faith of salvation, or anything close to that. It would be un-Masonic to assume such a thing. Where did you get that from? Sorry, but that is bizarre. |
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Post by maat on Jun 6, 2008 0:26:07 GMT
I shall pray for your delivery from darkness. Yours is a divisive spirit. You shall never be capable of seeing things differently as long as you carry this spirit of darkness. May G-d have mercy on your lonely tortured soul. ... or are you somehow immune from seeing in yourself what you see in others? Dear P I am not amused at your assumption to know of the spiritual state of another brother. Even though Masonry is not a religion, we do know, or are supposed to know, that when a brother is wretched, in darkness, lost, usurped by the devil or whomever, etc etc... we are supposed to go to his aid, travel through hell and highwater to render him assistance if he so desires. Right? M |
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Post by maat on Jun 6, 2008 0:38:24 GMT
Jesus died for our sins, there is no doubt of this. Did Jesus, himself, say that? If so I would really like to be able to check it for myself. By the way, Jesus was NOT a Christian. Seems He might have been an Essene. Christianity began after his death. Interesting to note that there were two factions even in the early days of Christianity, the version that survived was not the teachings of his beloved desciples, who were given the inner meanings, but rather the Paulian teachings. Remember Paul, when he was Saul, he sought out to suppress Jesus and his followers. Personally I think his plan succeeded beyond all expectation. But that is just my opinion. Imagine this.... there are no books... just our intuition to guide us... could you cope? Maat says YES! |
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Oct 25, 2024 19:03:35 GMT
