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Post by marcopolo on Jun 6, 2008 23:59:48 GMT
As the great Winnie the Pooh once said: “There is something you must always remember. You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. And you are inherently evil." (OK, I added that last sentence)  |
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Post by corab on Jun 7, 2008 0:05:07 GMT
I know in my case Freemasonry was absolutley the key catalyst in leading me away from faith. For that I will always be greatful. For me it was the other way round. I had long been interested in co-freemasonry, but I couldn't honestly say that I had a belief in a supreme being. I still think it's a contradictio in terminis, but that aside. It wasn't until I read a quote from Albert Einstein about the awe with which scientists witness the universe that something clicked, and I realised I could truly and honestly profess to a belief in a supreme being. Ironic: science and logic revealing that there must be design behind life and the universe as we know it. I went from 18 months of having no faith whatsoever to gradually making my own connections and developing my own unique way of relating to whatever it is that is at the origin of all. Those 18 months were absolute hell -- that abject loneliness; being in the wilderness as it were; totally and wilfully disconnected from the source. These days, I do have a faith. I just don't have a religion. On a different note (and perhaps for a different thread): would you tell us a bit more about your Rite? I narrowly missed an opportunity to visit a Memphis-Misraim lodge when I visited Paris in January, but I fully intend to make up on that sooner rather than later. |
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Post by corab on Jun 7, 2008 0:10:11 GMT
I see that "thevoiceofreason" says in one of his posts "I belong to a number of GL's actually. My primary work is done with The National Sovereign Sanctuary —The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. Why do you ask?" Oh dear! This reminds me of our old mate Rui Gabirro/Mangovo Ngoyo who came from Cabinda, pushed Sovereign Santuary for all his worth and started the "Regular Grand Lodge of England/Masonic High Council". However if you look at www.masonicinfo.com and the page on the Regular Grand Lodge of England, you'll learn a lot more about him although his name has now disappeared from the RGLE website. A google search for Mr Ngoyo is quite intriguing too as is one under our Rui! Blimey Keith, that's like comparing gold dust and popsicles. Memphis-Misraim has been around since the 1880s! |
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Post by alchymicalmason on Jun 7, 2008 0:15:37 GMT
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Post by alchymicalmason on Jun 7, 2008 0:25:40 GMT
Perhaps something positive may arise from this wilfully ignorant and fixated harangue. We read: How did someone become an Essene? A man who wanted to join the order had to give them everything he owned. He had to make a promise, called a “terrible oath”, in which he swore to be loyal to the brethren and keep the doctrines of the order secret. Excommunication was the punishment for breaking the oath. The novice Essene was given three articles: a pickax, an apron, and a white garment. Everything else in the order was common property. After one year of probation, during which he was carefully observed, he could be promoted to the next level. Another two years of successful tests would entitle the successful candidate to full membership in the Essene brotherhood. At this point he would be permitted to join other members for the common meals. what does Jesus have to do with the Essenes ? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Are you SERIOUS? |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 7, 2008 0:31:39 GMT
I see that "thevoiceofreason" says in one of his posts "I belong to a number of GL's actually. My primary work is done with The National Sovereign Sanctuary —The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. Why do you ask?" Oh dear! This reminds me of our old mate Rui Gabirro/Mangovo Ngoyo who came from Cabinda, pushed Sovereign Santuary for all his worth and started the "Regular Grand Lodge of England/Masonic High Council". However if you look at www.masonicinfo.com and the page on the Regular Grand Lodge of England, you'll learn a lot more about him although his name has now disappeared from the RGLE website. A google search for Mr Ngoyo is quite intriguing too as is one under our Rui! Ok, first of all I am not Rui Gabirro. I will also not comment on anyone else when it comes to thier Masonic affiliation or non affiliation. The The National Sovereign Sanctuary —The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm prohibits this as the anonymity of all members is to be highly respected. Any other questions? www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 7, 2008 0:39:26 GMT
I know in my case Freemasonry was absolutley the key catalyst in leading me away from faith. For that I will always be greatful. For me it was the other way round. I had long been interested in co-freemasonry, but I couldn't honestly say that I had a belief in a supreme being. I still think it's a contradictio in terminis, but that aside. It wasn't until I read a quote from Albert Einstein about the awe with which scientists witness the universe that something clicked, and I realised I could truly and honestly profess to a belief in a supreme being. Ironic: science and logic revealing that there must be design behind life and the universe as we know it. I went from 18 months of having no faith whatsoever to gradually making my own connections and developing my own unique way of relating to whatever it is that is at the origin of all. Those 18 months were absolute hell -- that abject loneliness; being in the wilderness as it were; totally and wilfully disconnected from the source. These days, I do have a faith. I just don't have a religion. On a different note (and perhaps for a different thread): would you tell us a bit more about your Rite? I narrowly missed an opportunity to visit a Memphis-Misraim lodge when I visited Paris in January, but I fully intend to make up on that sooner rather than later. I would not say that belief in God amounts to "faith." I 100% believe in God yet I have zero faith. I think with a rational mind and faith is the 100% suspention of rationality. What would you like to know about The International Sovereign Sanctuary —The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm? Internationaly we are the second oldest French Grand Lodge behind the Grand Orient Of France. The oldest in the charter of both Feminine and Mixed lodges and the largest that charters all three types of lodges worldwide. We require a beilef in a supreme being that being said we are 90% Deist in makeup. We have lodges in England. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 7, 2008 1:56:42 GMT
In his book, People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil, M. Scott Peck (who takes a Christian approach to Psychiatry), observes that lies are the hallmark of evil; often petty, pointless lies, told for the sake of lying, or clinging to lies, knowing them to be be lies. We cannot know the soul of 'Angelo El-sham-ah' (perhaps a joke at our expense, drawing on a couple of languages and meaning, 'messenger of a false god') but s/he has been repeatedly told strong and valid answers to the questions he, she or they asked (ostensibly in good faith). Still Elshamah clings to the confessed lies of Leo Taxil; the demonstrated lies surrounding Albert Pike and his standing among Freemasons; etc., etc.—We are dealing with a grub. |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 7, 2008 3:43:37 GMT
The Christ means "the anoited one." See there is another Biblical quandry. If we are to believe in the trinitarian Jesus, then Jesus anointed himself. How big of him  www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by maximus on Jun 7, 2008 4:05:25 GMT
The Christ means "the anoited one." See there is another Biblical quandry. If we are to believe in the trinitarian Jesus, then Jesus anointed himself. How big of him Actually, he was annointed by Mary Magdelene. 36And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat. 37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, 38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. 39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. 40And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. 41There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. 42And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? 43Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. 44And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. 45Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. 46My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. 47Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. 48And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. |
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 7, 2008 4:25:20 GMT
We have seen here where Angelo has been given perfectly valid answers to sites he thought were genuine, he will find it hard to admit he has been misled, but give it time it will sink in. Bro. Bill, I am perplexed. I said mainstream Freemasonry's exclusion of women has been discriminatory / Elshamah said Freemasonry is Satanic: You blasted me, yet have called for patience and leniency for Elshamah!? |
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 7, 2008 6:32:24 GMT
Actually, he was annointed by Mary Magdelene. Similarly, Solomon's mother, Bathsheba somehow had the authority to crown him (Songs 3:11). 'Bath-Sheba' means 'daughter of Sheba,' which can mean 'priestess of the cult of Sheba' (which casts a different light on why David wished to associated himself with her; i.e., to legitimize his claim to Saul's throne—Alas! Poor Uriah). I have suggested elsewhere that the Queen of Sheba (signifying 'Queen of the Oath') appears to have been the High Priestess of the cult of Asherah / Isis. Just as 'Asherah' (signifying 'Stability'), was represented by a pillar-like cult object, 'Magdalene' signified 'tower.' Thus, the ageless drama was reenacted, with different actors overshadowed by their roles as the god-king and the goddess. |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 7, 2008 8:11:19 GMT
thevoiceofreason, as Freemasonry is open to followers of different religions why would you, as someone who claims to be a fellow Mason, try to dissuade Christians from their beliefs? I am curious too as to what your GL/Obedience is? I believe that I have already answered this question. In a lodge room I have no issue working with Brothers of the Christian and other man made "faiths." BUT as Freemason, we are also to stand up to tyranny and the Jesus myth is leading to great tryanny in the USA. This once beautiful country based on Deist principles of reason and logic is being erroded from within by rabid superstitious nonsense. I belong to a number of GL's actually. My primary work is done with The National Sovereign Sanctuary —The Ancient and Primitive Rite of Memphis-Misraïm. Why do you ask? www.godvsthebible.com Why do I ask? It's unusual for me to come across someone from any GL/Obedience who professes to be a Mason but seems to lack appreciation of another's belief. As a Mason you are well aware a very high proportion within our Fraternity believe what the Bible says about Jesus, yet you seem to think they are somehow delusional because of this. I know many brothers who follow different types of religion and some who adhere to none, at all. But you are the first I have come across who seems so set upon attacking their beliefs in such a forthright, public manner. For me this is unusual. |
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 7, 2008 9:34:07 GMT
I have edited a couple of posts , too many haha's on one line it throws the width off.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 7, 2008 9:41:37 GMT
We have seen here where Angelo has been given perfectly valid answers to sites he thought were genuine, he will find it hard to admit he has been misled, but give it time it will sink in. Bro. Bill, I am perplexed. I said mainstream Freemasonry's exclusion of women has been discriminatory / Elshamah said Freemasonry is Satanic: You blasted me, yet have called for patience and leniency for Elshamah!? Simple, you know exactly what you are saying and why. But I dont remember blasting anyone. I may disagree on occasion. Then have I not extended patience and leniency to your good self Bro. T. but then again even I am not perfect. |
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Post by AndyF on Jun 7, 2008 11:50:14 GMT
Voice of Reason, there are many belief systems that seem incredibly far-fetched to me. However, you have to realise that it is a serious matter to the followers of those faiths. Challenging, belittling and ridiculing their beliefs is downright disrespectful, whether you deem them plausible or not.
Its one thing to mention that a particular belief system is not for you, another entirely to tell someone their religion is wrong or invalid.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 7, 2008 12:29:26 GMT
"Angelo Elshameh" means "messenger of a false god"?!?! Surely you jest.  Are you suggesting that this poster is deliberately pretending to be a Christian Religious Extremist? Angelo = Messenger El = God sham = false ah = of BTW - Would you be so kind as to define/describe "grub" for me? 'Something which thrives on filth.' In Australia it can also mean 'food,' while 'grubby' can mean 'dirty.' |
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Post by droche on Jun 7, 2008 13:33:09 GMT
This discussion seems to have morphed into one of theology. Please don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing that, but that is not a subject on which I am comfortable debating; I still have a lot to learn on that.
I would just like to summarize the subject of Angelo's premises about Freemasonry. It seems that his major premises are that :
1. Freemasonry is a religion.
2. Freemasonry worships a God named "Jabulon."
3. Freemasonry offers a plan of salvation.
I think it has been clearly demonstrated that all of the above premises are clearly false, and, like Bill wrote, I hope that once Angelo has time to digest what has been said about Freemasonry, he will moderate his views. Unless anyone brings anything new to the table about Freemasonry, I do not see myself participating in this thread any more, so I would just like to say that apart from some rancorous comments (and I will plead guilty to some of that and express my regret for it), I think it was a healthy discussion, one of the more healthy I've seen on various threads.
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Post by leonardo on Jun 7, 2008 14:00:40 GMT
"Angelo Elshameh" means "messenger of a false god"?!?! Surely you jest. Are you suggesting that this poster is deliberately pretending to be a Christian Religious Extremist? Angelo = Messenger El = God sham = false ah = of Another demonstration of how educational this thread has been Thanks Bro Philip. |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 7, 2008 14:06:08 GMT
This discussion seems to have morphed into one of theology. Please don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing that, but that is not a subject on which I am comfortable debating; I still have a lot to learn on that. I would just like to summarize the subject of Angelo's premises about Freemasonry. It seems that his major premises are that : 1. Freemasonry is a religion. 2. Freemasonry worships a God named "Jabulon." 3. Freemasonry offers a plan of salvation. I think it has been clearly demonstrated that all of the above premises are clearly false, and, like Bill wrote, I hope that once Angelo has time to digest what has been said about Freemasonry, he will moderate his views. Unless anyone brings anything new to the table about Freemasonry, I do not see myself participating in this thread any more, so I would just like to say that apart from some rancorous comments (and I will plead guilty to some of that and express my regret for it), I think it was a healthy discussion, one of the more healthy I've seen on various threads. Yes, that about sums it up but sometimes we only hear (read) what confirms our own thoughts and everything else is just a temporary distraction. I hope and pray this won't be the case with Angelo he has the ability to receive the light that has been shared in this thread. |
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Are you suggesting that this poster is deliberately pretending to be a Christian Religious Extremist?