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Post by leonardo on Jun 10, 2008 17:13:35 GMT
...but has he stated a position? I've seen lots of implications and questions and biblical quotes, but no outright "I reckon this..." I'd love to hear that. Just once. Make a point, man! ok. i think born again christians should not involve with freemasonry. Christianity is God-inspired. Freemasonry is inspired by the Devil. Now, there's a supprise ;D |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 10, 2008 17:19:10 GMT
Would you care to develop on those implications? I only ask as I am a curious old soul  |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 10, 2008 18:04:02 GMT
Would you care to develop on those implications? I only ask as I am a curious old soul uh, are you talking to me here?  Sorry, Bro. Yes, I was hoping you'd elaborate on the other implications you hinted at. For example, I know there are some Ex-Masons who have written so-called exposés on the Craft. Such people in my view only every joined to learn our secrets and then publish them for financial gain. I thought maybe this is what you were eluding to. |
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 10, 2008 19:21:58 GMT
On this matter of ex-Masons etc, perhaps I can shed some light?
For 18 years I was an UGLE Mason. In December 2006 I resigned, in good standing with all my Lodges and other Bodies, from UGLE.
Now as far as UGLE is concerned in their eyes I am not a Freemason. In my eyes and in my heart I most assuredly am and indeed I never ceased to be one as I became a Joining Member of Le Droit Humain in Dec 2006. If a person is made a Mason "in their Heart" then only they can repudiate that and I most certainly did not.
Now where does this place me as regards Obligations? I am Obligated to LDH to obey its Rules and Regulations and the Officers placed in authority over me, both of the British Federation and the Supreme Council in the Zenith of Paris. No problem there. I am also Obligated to Freemasonry not to dislcose the Signs, Tokens and Words I have sworn to keep secret to anyone who is not entitled to receive them. Again no problem.
Finally, I owe UGLE as an Institution NOTHING, having abjured its authority and resigned therefrom. However, I treat with respect the individual members thereof as I personally recognise them as Brother Freemasons as indeed does LDH although that Recognition is not reciprocated.
So as I see it, if someone both resigns from a Masonic Obedience such as a Grand Lodge, Grand Orient, Supreme Council etc but still considers themself to be a Freemason, then they are bound by the Obligations they swore, If however in addition to their Resignation they also abjure Freemasonry and no longer consider themselves to be a Freemason then it is up to them whether they consider the Oath they swore to still retain any validity.
I can see why someone who has left Freemasonry on idealogical grounds might wish to disclose the "secrets" especially if they bore a grudge against The Craft. I do NOT of course condone this, but can understand their motivations, and I feel that it is this type of ex-Mason that Eshamah has encountered.
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 10, 2008 19:44:06 GMT
I agree, brethren, but let's keep in mind. Many of those who use the quotes of these "former Masons" are much less worried about the truth then they are about validating their pre-conceived stereotypes and "winning the argument". You can see on this very thread the exchange has gone something like this: 1. Make a claim against freemasonry using a source. 2. The claim is proven false, or the source as a hoax. 3. Change to a different source and make the same (or similar claim). 4. The claim is proven false, or the source of a hoax. 5. Repeat #3 in an infinite loop. You'll notice there is no room for realizing that you are, in fact, wrong.. and spreading lies.. just keep accusing using other sources. If you end up at the bottom of the barrel, feel free to use internet sites which claim that UFO's are actually a zionist/illuminati/masonic conspiracy to control the world. Don't let little things like the fact that the author admitted they were a hoax stop you. The York Rite structure formed in the 1800's influenced the US Seal created in the 1700's? Sure, no problem. George W. Bush making a "satanic hand signal!" OK, why not. Throw in some non-Masons? Hmm. Well, let's just say that they aren't "mason" masons, but skull and bones. Not related? Sure, they are all part of the secret illuminati/jewish/masonic/alien/communist plot to overtake the world. Man, somebody needs to bring me up to speed on all the world-controlling stuff. I missed a couple of meetings, but I thought we were still doing the "free hospitals for sick kids" thing.  And, after 27 pages of posts. We continue the cycle above. No admission of wrongdoing. No apologies for spreading lies or bearing false witness. Great witness. VERY Christ-like, brother. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 10, 2008 20:27:54 GMT
Man, somebody needs to bring me up to speed on all the world-controlling stuff. I missed a couple of meetings, but I thought we were still doing the "free hospitals for sick kids" thing. You didn't get the newslwtter from the Shapeshifting Reptillian Illuminati/Jewish/Masonic/ Communist Overlords? Must be a simple oversight. I'll put in a word at Galactic HQ. ;D |
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Post by maximus on Jun 10, 2008 20:48:10 GMT
You didn't get the newslwtter from the Shapeshifting Reptillian Illuminati/Jewish/Masonic/ Communist Overlords? Must be a simple oversight. I'll put in a word at Galactic HQ. ;D No need. They sense the need and have already put him on the list -- back ordered of course due to the usual sabotage by you know who.  Of course! I should have realised that.  |
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 10, 2008 21:00:18 GMT
Oh, NOW I remember how they automatically know... it's Santa Claus, the secret Mason who knows whether we've been naughty or nice. (Wait, would that constitute a plan of salvation?) |
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Post by tedfromiowa on Jun 10, 2008 21:00:42 GMT
Wow. 28 pages and this thread has gone nowhere. Do you not see that he will not learn. Those who don't want to learn, will not. He is trolling and his real reason for being here is not what he states.
Why waste time with him? He does not deserve it.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Jun 10, 2008 21:01:03 GMT
>Christ did condemn ........... those who interfere with children
Brother Lauderdale
I must have missed that in my bible studies. Do you have a reference? Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Also Mark 9:42 & Luke 17:2 |
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Post by lauderdale on Jun 10, 2008 21:02:06 GMT
Thanks Bro Phil, saves me having to get out my Concordance.
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Post by maximus on Jun 10, 2008 21:14:30 GMT
Wow. 28 pages and this thread has gone nowhere. Do you not see that he will not learn. Those who don't want to learn, will not. He is trolling and his real reason for being here is not what he states. Why waste time with him? He does not deserve it. It's fun as a mental exercise. |
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Post by droche on Jun 10, 2008 21:14:42 GMT
Wow. 28 pages and this thread has gone nowhere. Do you not see that he will not learn. Those who don't want to learn, will not. He is trolling and his real reason for being here is not what he states. Why waste time with him? He does not deserve it. I think you are absolutely right. We are dealing with an internet troll here and it is not worth more of anyone's time. It just burns me when a troll does his thing in the name of Christ. That is one of the lowest things I can imagine. If it wasn't for the harmonious discussion that is occurring among the others from all these diverse backgrounds I'd be all in favor of shutting down this guy's boiler room operation. |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 10, 2008 21:17:20 GMT
I can see why someone who has left Freemasonry on idealogical grounds might wish to disclose the "secrets" especially if they bore a grudge against The Craft. I do NOT of course condone this, but can understand their motivations, and I feel that it is this type of ex-Mason that Eshamah has encountered. Good point, Bro. Steve. Yes, I can see that happening: people can become dissatisfied or disgruntled for many reasons, resulting in some leaving Freemasonry altogether. My concern, though, is with those who, once having left FM then proceed to write books containing outright lies about it. Of course, anything such ex-Masons write will be lapped up by anties like Angelo. They aren't interested in truth. As long as something confirms their preconceived views on the Craft it's immediately held up as fact! |
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 10, 2008 21:22:39 GMT
Wow. 28 pages and this thread has gone nowhere. Do you not see that he will not learn. Those who don't want to learn, will not. He is trolling and his real reason for being here is not what he states. Why waste time with him? He does not deserve it. It's fun as a mental exercise. I agree. It also shows brings out the best in us. Where else could someone accuse another group of worshiping satan and get 28 pages of patient discourse from them? |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 10, 2008 21:23:37 GMT
Ugh. Again? Are you serious? Yes, I know what some people have claimed. Yes, I "deny" that there is a Masonic plan of salvation. (Because there isn't) And Yes, I (personally) believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That last quote is not accurate, and is not true. I was never, ever told to imitate Hiram Abiff to get into heaven. Utter nonsense. I was never, ever taught that Hiram Abiff is the way (or even A way) to reconciliation with God. Seriously, you sound ridiculous posting this stuff. About as ridiculous as I would if I started (and kept) asking you why the government is planting chips in peoples heads. hi marco polo i believe you. However, i have never made part of freemasonry, so i do not know, what is true, what is not, that is claimed at some pages on the internet. However, i cannot believe as well, that everything is hoax. |
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 10, 2008 21:27:45 GMT
Ugh. Again? Are you serious? Yes, I know what some people have claimed. Yes, I "deny" that there is a Masonic plan of salvation. (Because there isn't) And Yes, I (personally) believe that Jesus is the only way to heaven. That last quote is not accurate, and is not true. I was never, ever told to imitate Hiram Abiff to get into heaven. Utter nonsense. I was never, ever taught that Hiram Abiff is the way (or even A way) to reconciliation with God. Seriously, you sound ridiculous posting this stuff. About as ridiculous as I would if I started (and kept) asking you why the government is planting chips in peoples heads. hi marco polo i believe you. However, i have never made part of freemasonry, so i do not know, what is true, what is not, that is claimed at some pages on the internet. However, i cannot believe as well, that everything is hoax. I understand. There really is no way for you to know. However, when it comes to believing that someone is worshiping Satan, I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt until I've proven it was true. (And I definitely wouldn't accuse someone of such a thing without proof!) That whole "bearing false witness" thing, you know. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 10, 2008 21:31:01 GMT
You thrive on tearing down others; Freemasonry thrives on building them up. That is why the symbology of building the temple is used in Freemasonry- to build up and inspire people. in fact, the only ground I do accept, is Jesus Christ, to build up and inspire my life. well, if to follow only Jesus Christ is fool, than let's be it. i am a happy fool, then. i admit it. |
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 10, 2008 21:33:46 GMT
You thrive on tearing down others; Freemasonry thrives on building them up. That is why the symbology of building the temple is used in Freemasonry- to build up and inspire people. in fact, the only ground I do accept, is Jesus Christ, to build up and inspire my life. well, if to follow only Jesus Christ is fool, than let's be it. i am a happy fool, then. i admit it. Don't paint yourself as the martyr. Many of us believe the same things you do. The comment was directed at your behavior, not your beliefs. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 10, 2008 21:33:47 GMT
we say here in brazil : idem. or, translated : same to you. I hope your voyage is to heaven as well. As is mine. Thanks. So far, heaven has been a great journey and experience. It has much to offer. You should try it some time. ;D i don't think you have experimented heavon. No men on earth has yet. But i have experimented how good it is, to belong to Jesus. And his grace and love, yes, i have experimented it, and i can tell you : i have not found anything better in my life. |
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