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Post by lauderdale on Jun 11, 2008 17:28:19 GMT
To pick up on Bro Maximus' point, there have been many Archbishops of Canterbury and other Bishops, and countless Priests who have been or are currently Freemasons. I do not for one moment think, nor do the vast majority of normal Christains consider, them to be any the less Christian for that. On the contrary, I myself and many others have had their Christian Faith strengthened and enhanced by being a Freemason, to the extent that having been an Anglican I am now a member of the Liberal Catholic Church and in Minor Orders therein and may, in due time, be Ordained into the Priesthood, God Willing.
To be blunt I personally consider Evangelical "Born Agains" to be a minority sect of Christianity, and like all such small groups rather extreme in their views. I align myself with the Mainstream of Christianity such as the Church of England, The Orthodox, Roman Catholics etc, the more Sacerdotal wing of the Christian Churches.
Elshamah is welcome to his branch of the Christian Faith, it obviously works for him but does nothng for me, anything but! As Christ himself said "In my Father's house there are many mansions". As long as Elshamah and his kind live in one far away from me I will be happy.
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Post by droche on Jun 11, 2008 17:35:38 GMT
We do not have to come up with a web site. You came here; we didn't ask you to come here. When you get right down to it, I don't think anyone here really cares what you think of Freemasonry. I know I don't. I think I can say with confidence that no Mason here is going to be bothered if your opinion is not changed about Freemasonry. If you want to continue participating in this discussion, the onus is on you, not us.
My own personal opinion is that Masons here continue to participate in the discussion because it is so easy to refute all of these anti-Masonic arguments that you propagate. Like I said in a previous post, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, or however that saying goes. So don't fool yourself into thinking that we really care how you think of Freemasonry. Most of us are aware that there always have been people like you and that there always will be. I am under no illusion that your views will change; I don't think that many, if any, other Masons in this discussion think so as well.
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 18:00:09 GMT
We do not have to come up with a web site. You came here; we didn't ask you to come here. When you get right down to it, I don't think anyone here really cares what you think of Freemasonry. I know I don't. I think I can say with confidence that no Mason here is going to be bothered if your opinion is not changed about Freemasonry. If you want to continue participating in this discussion, the onus is on you, not us. My own personal opinion is that Masons here continue to participate in the discussion because it is so easy to refute all of these anti-Masonic arguments that you propagate. Like I said in a previous post, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, or however that saying goes. So don't fool yourself into thinking that we really care how you think of Freemasonry. Most of us are aware that there always have been people like you and that there always will be. I am under no illusion that your views will change; I don't think that many, if any, other Masons in this discussion think so as well. superficially it is easy to refute the arguments. but let us come to the details, to the facts. Let's give us a closer look to the simbols, to the meanings , to the rituals, then we will see what you will be able to refute. let us see, if the anti masonic sites, all tell lies...... |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 18:05:19 GMT
We do not have to come up with a web site. You came here; we didn't ask you to come here. When you get right down to it, I don't think anyone here really cares what you think of Freemasonry. I know I don't. I think I can say with confidence that no Mason here is going to be bothered if your opinion is not changed about Freemasonry. If you want to continue participating in this discussion, the onus is on you, not us. My own personal opinion is that Masons here continue to participate in the discussion because it is so easy to refute all of these anti-Masonic arguments that you propagate. Like I said in a previous post, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, or however that saying goes. So don't fool yourself into thinking that we really care how you think of Freemasonry. Most of us are aware that there always have been people like you and that there always will be. I am under no illusion that your views will change; I don't think that many, if any, other Masons in this discussion think so as well. from : www.ephesians5-11.org/dodson.htmIts true nature is not readily apparent as many fine people do belong to this organization, and of course it is involved in various charitable activities which also give it an appearance of being an upstanding organization. But there is a saying that you can't judge a book by its "cover" (how appropriate a word in this case), and Freemasonry must be understood not by its cover but by the philosophy, teachings, and spiritual forces which lie behind it. From the above account, you have seen in a personal story how Freemasonry was Satan's Trojan horse, having given him access into two churches without any alarms being sounded. Freemasonry is a very useful tool since it usually goes undetected and yet is still able to inflict its damage. This Trojan horse can expose an individual and a church to the powers of darkness because of its occultic nature and its false gospel, both of which are not readily apparent to most of its initiates. It can therefore serve as a damper on the Holy Spirit and can quench His work in both an individual and a congregation. It can stunt an individual's spiritual growth if he is truly born again, and it can keep men from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if they are not truly regenerate. Sadly, its impact and effectiveness are greatly enhanced because it is not a kosher issue to address in our day, politically incorrect if you will. On an individual basis, nearly all of my minister colleagues are silent on this issue, some afraid to speak out, others not knowledgeable enough about the issue to be concerned. At the denominational level (Southern Baptist Convention), there was an opportunity in 1993 to address this issue, but it was badly botched as a very weak study was published and a compromised position was adopted. But it's not just the S.B.C. that is failing to deal with this issue, there are other denominations which are silent as well. Also few independent ministries address this either. It's as if almost the whole Church is in bondage to this stronghold. How sad? In conclusion, read the following words spoken by Adrian Rogers because they explain my attitude about truth, whether it relates to Freemasonry or some other issue: "It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude." |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 18:25:56 GMT
"a true christian" (sic). Then what are they? Satan worshipers? Do the opinions of these 3 or 4 disaffected (delusional) people count more than that of hundreds of thousands of Christian Masons worldwide? You presume to arrogate to yourself the authority to judge all of these people as damned? Hubris. what is your religion ? "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,
Love is the law, love under will." - Liber AL vel Legis |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 18:27:27 GMT
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the law, love under will." - Liber AL vel Legis that says it all. that's pure satanic. you are in good company, Marco Polo. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 18:28:58 GMT
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the law, love under will." - Liber AL vel Legis that says it all. that's pure satanic. you are in good company, Marco Polo. You have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 18:40:28 GMT
It can be purely Satanic.
At least according to Angelo.
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 18:50:45 GMT
It can be purely Satanic. At least according to Angelo. Can that claim of purity incude pure rubbish too? or would that somehow dilute the purity?  Rubbish and BS go together like cake and ice cream.  |
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Post by marcopolo on Jun 11, 2008 18:54:34 GMT
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law, Love is the law, love under will." - Liber AL vel Legis that says it all. that's pure satanic. you are in good company, Marco Polo. Oh brother.  Angelo, you should probably move out of Brazil. I've heard there are voodo people there. How can you continue to yoke yourself with darkness? And yet, you continue to yoke yourself and quote false websites. I notice you still haven't answered my questions. And why do you continue to yoke yourself to a faith which preaches that "When Fags Die, God Smiles"; That salvation is for the White Man Alone! Why do you continue to yoke yourself to such satanic darkness? I mean they are, after all, evangelicals like you (us), right? |
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 11, 2008 18:56:21 GMT
Elshamah, I'm glad to see this thread still spinning its wheels, if not actually going anywhere. Again, I recommend you speak for yourself and that your buds get their own logins. As it is, it appears you're doing all the talking when, clearly, you are not (changes in grammar and writing style give you away). So my recommendation remains the same. Also, if you continue to simply parrot the same things over and over and fail to actually engage those whom you claim you wish to reach, you will, ultimately, lose their interest. And they'll just leave you to talk alone. That is what's happening now. If you truly are interested in actual communication with the lost souls here, then I think it would behoove you (all y'all) to learn how to communicate in a more open, intelligent and rational way. If you can  |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 19:05:29 GMT
If you truly are interested in actual communication with the lost souls here, then I think it would behoove you (all y'all) to learn how to communicate in a more open, intelligent and rational way. If you can I don't think that he and his host of ghostwriters have the mental acumen to carry an intellegent conversation. Satan this, Satan that; blah, blah, blah... |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 19:10:37 GMT
Again, I recommend you speak for yourself and that your buds get their own logins. As it is, it appears you're doing all the talking when, clearly, you are not (changes in grammar and writing style give you away). So my recommendation remains the same. You can't fool the Mouse. ;D |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 19:21:27 GMT
from : www.ephesians5-11.org/dodson.htmIts true nature is not readily apparent as many fine people do belong to this organization, and of course it is involved in various charitable activities which also give it an appearance of being an upstanding organization. But there is a saying that you can't judge a book by its "cover" (how appropriate a word in this case), and Freemasonry must be understood not by its cover but by the philosophy, teachings, and spiritual forces which lie behind it. From the above account, you have seen in a personal story how Freemasonry was Satan's Trojan horse, having given him access into two churches without any alarms being sounded. Freemasonry is a very useful tool since it usually goes undetected and yet is still able to inflict its damage. This Trojan horse can expose an individual and a church to the powers of darkness because of its occultic nature and its false gospel, both of which are not readily apparent to most of its initiates. It can therefore serve as a damper on the Holy Spirit and can quench His work in both an individual and a congregation. It can stunt an individual's spiritual growth if he is truly born again, and it can keep men from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if they are not truly regenerate. Sadly, its impact and effectiveness are greatly enhanced because it is not a kosher issue to address in our day, politically incorrect if you will. On an individual basis, nearly all of my minister colleagues are silent on this issue, some afraid to speak out, others not knowledgeable enough about the issue to be concerned. At the denominational level (Southern Baptist Convention), there was an opportunity in 1993 to address this issue, but it was badly botched as a very weak study was published and a compromised position was adopted. But it's not just the S.B.C. that is failing to deal with this issue, there are other denominations which are silent as well. Also few independent ministries address this either. It's as if almost the whole Church is in bondage to this stronghold. How sad? In conclusion, read the following words spoken by Adrian Rogers because they explain my attitude about truth, whether it relates to Freemasonry or some other issue: "It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude."Note the lack of Angelo's charateristic spelling mistakes and atrocious grammer. Obviously someone else. His name is Legion. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 19:23:55 GMT
And now for something completely different... ;D I view Freemasonry as a "Spiritual United Nations" where all faiths, beliefs and religions come together in agape, harmony and peace making sincere effort to build builders. darkness and light do not go together. sligthly different ? there could not be a more distance between thelema and christianism. i don't think i need to make the work and google, do i ? i do that with truly brothers in faith , which do have the same objective : to glorify our beloved God. Yes , the one of the old testament as well.  I would NEVER share close brotherhood with who practives wicca, thelema and similar such things. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 19:25:04 GMT
superficially it is easy to refute the arguments. but let us come to the details, to the facts. Let's give us a closer look to the simbols, to the meanings , to the rituals, then we will see what you will be able to refute. let us see, if the anti masonic sites, all tell lies...... Now this is Angelo, our messenger of a false god. Note the poor spelling and the unesessary overuse of commas |
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Post by corab on Jun 11, 2008 19:25:10 GMT
Who's talking now ..? This is so definitely not the same person we've come to know as Angelo ... I think out of some 6 or 7 people about 3 are ex masons. Fine. In this case you admit they were in fact ex masons. That makes it clear, they had insight of what happens behind the doors of freemasonry. The fact that they sell some stuff, does not mean, what they say, is untrue, automatically. So lets give a closer look about what they claim. Let's see, if all, that they say, are lies. Freemasonry is not a Christian organization, nor is it an organization primarily composed of Christians. There are Hindus, Buddhists, Moslems, and even Witches who are Masons. While many Masons claim to be Christians, we question, "How can they be in fellowship with Jesus Christ if they continue to walk in darkness?" If a man is a Christian, the Holy Spirit in-dwells him. Some of us were Christians before we joined the Lodge. We can testify that the Holy Spirit was not silent as we went into the lodge. There were many aspects of Masonic ritual which grieved the Spirit. Those of us who listened left the lodge rather quickly. Some never went back, after being initiated. Others of us ignored the Holy Spirit and quenched it. Later, our eyes were opened by someone whom God had sent to witness to us. In some cases, it was a Godly wife who caused us to question Masonic teachings. At that time, the Holy Spirit confirmed the testimony of the one God had ordained to lead us to repentance. Others of us were led to Christ while we were Masons. As a result or our new 20/20 vision, we were able to see that Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity. We left the lodge in order to follow Jesus. Are there Christians in the Lodge? Yes, temporarily. Conclusion : if someone despite the incompatibilities with the Christian faith does continue to be a freemason, he might not be a true christian. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 19:25:28 GMT
i do not wonder to hear this. have they not called jesus possessed as well ? so will they his followers. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 19:28:41 GMT
that says it all. that's pure satanic. you are in good company, Marco Polo. Oh brother. Angelo, you should probably move out of Brazil. I've heard there are voodo people there. How can you continue to yoke yourself with darkness? And yet, you continue to yoke yourself and quote false websites. I notice you still haven't answered my questions. And why do you continue to yoke yourself to a faith which preaches that "When Fags Die, God Smiles"; That salvation is for the White Man Alone! Why do you continue to yoke yourself to such satanic darkness? I mean they are, after all, evangelicals like you (us), right? the difference is : i do not have any close relationship and even worse, brotherhood with these people. actually, i live my life, they live theirs, each on at his palce. i do not share anything with them. However, with you, the story is quit different.... |
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Post by maximus on Jun 11, 2008 19:33:33 GMT
darkness and light do not go together. Without a dark, there would be no light. Both are required for balance. I've already provided you a link. Click on the big, green word "Thelema" and you will go to Wikipedia. But, feel free to "do the work." I would be interested in reading your misconceptions of Thelema. In your own words, please. What are you afraid of? Cooties? Or is your faith so weak that you fear being pursuaded to follow "Satan?" |
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