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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 22:09:04 GMT
Ah, my fellow traveler in this world, if you knew me better . . .  As I said, out of mercy and compassion I will not debate with you. I am, however, a moderator here. As a courtesy, I must ask you to begin citing your sources. I know you've not been cautioned about this before but, truly, it's only polite. If you pull information from another website, please say so and give them credit. To do otherwise is stealing and I'm sure I don't need to tell you that's wrong. Also, while the Bible is not copyrighted, it's proper to name your text. As an Evangelical, you should know that. In the above case, it's 2 Corinthians 6:14-29. Which, I think, you would do well to read as it speaks to you. These are questions for you to ponder. Which, I suppose, is why God placed this text before you. Take care. sorry, it was my mistake not to cite the source. it was not my intention. |
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Post by droche on Jun 11, 2008 22:09:27 GMT
from : www.ephesians5-11.org/dodson.htmIts true nature is not readily apparent as many fine people do belong to this organization, and of course it is involved in various charitable activities which also give it an appearance of being an upstanding organization. But there is a saying that you can't judge a book by its "cover" (how appropriate a word in this case), and Freemasonry must be understood not by its cover but by the philosophy, teachings, and spiritual forces which lie behind it. From the above account, you have seen in a personal story how Freemasonry was Satan's Trojan horse, having given him access into two churches without any alarms being sounded. Freemasonry is a very useful tool since it usually goes undetected and yet is still able to inflict its damage. This Trojan horse can expose an individual and a church to the powers of darkness because of its occultic nature and its false gospel, both of which are not readily apparent to most of its initiates. It can therefore serve as a damper on the Holy Spirit and can quench His work in both an individual and a congregation. It can stunt an individual's spiritual growth if he is truly born again, and it can keep men from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if they are not truly regenerate. Sadly, its impact and effectiveness are greatly enhanced because it is not a kosher issue to address in our day, politically incorrect if you will. On an individual basis, nearly all of my minister colleagues are silent on this issue, some afraid to speak out, others not knowledgeable enough about the issue to be concerned. At the denominational level (Southern Baptist Convention), there was an opportunity in 1993 to address this issue, but it was badly botched as a very weak study was published and a compromised position was adopted. But it's not just the S.B.C. that is failing to deal with this issue, there are other denominations which are silent as well. Also few independent ministries address this either. It's as if almost the whole Church is in bondage to this stronghold. How sad? In conclusion, read the following words spoken by Adrian Rogers because they explain my attitude about truth, whether it relates to Freemasonry or some other issue: "It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude."Note the lack of Angelo's charateristic spelling mistakes and atrocious grammer. Obviously someone else. His name is Legion. Hmmmmm, I did not pick up on this. If that's the case I am through posting on this thread. If these guys do not have the courage and integrity to identify themselves while calling themselves Christian we really are dealing with low forms. |
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Post by tedfromiowa on Jun 11, 2008 22:11:47 GMT
Ok, everyone sing:
Oh the wheels on the bus go round and round,
round and round, round and round,
Oh the wheels on the bus go round and round,
All through this thread!
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 22:17:17 GMT
from : www.ephesians5-11.org/dodson.htmIts true nature is not readily apparent as many fine people do belong to this organization, and of course it is involved in various charitable activities which also give it an appearance of being an upstanding organization. But there is a saying that you can't judge a book by its "cover" (how appropriate a word in this case), and Freemasonry must be understood not by its cover but by the philosophy, teachings, and spiritual forces which lie behind it. From the above account, you have seen in a personal story how Freemasonry was Satan's Trojan horse, having given him access into two churches without any alarms being sounded. Freemasonry is a very useful tool since it usually goes undetected and yet is still able to inflict its damage. This Trojan horse can expose an individual and a church to the powers of darkness because of its occultic nature and its false gospel, both of which are not readily apparent to most of its initiates. It can therefore serve as a damper on the Holy Spirit and can quench His work in both an individual and a congregation. It can stunt an individual's spiritual growth if he is truly born again, and it can keep men from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ if they are not truly regenerate. Sadly, its impact and effectiveness are greatly enhanced because it is not a kosher issue to address in our day, politically incorrect if you will. On an individual basis, nearly all of my minister colleagues are silent on this issue, some afraid to speak out, others not knowledgeable enough about the issue to be concerned. At the denominational level (Southern Baptist Convention), there was an opportunity in 1993 to address this issue, but it was badly botched as a very weak study was published and a compromised position was adopted. But it's not just the S.B.C. that is failing to deal with this issue, there are other denominations which are silent as well. Also few independent ministries address this either. It's as if almost the whole Church is in bondage to this stronghold. How sad? In conclusion, read the following words spoken by Adrian Rogers because they explain my attitude about truth, whether it relates to Freemasonry or some other issue: "It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude."Huh? The only specific thing on this site that specifically states a reason to be against Freemasonry is when it says that Christ's theology is exclusive while Freemasonry's "theology" (even though Freemasonry does not have a theology) is inclusive. A lot of religious scholars, non-Masons included would disagree with that. He mentions a verse in Timothy that purports to be against Freemasonry but he doesn't say how. He says that Freemasonry is "Satan's Trojan Horse, but he doesn't say how. He mentions a verse in Genesis but that doesn't relate to anything about Freemasonry. His whole page just tells of the troubles he had with Masons in his church. Well, I can see why. If a new minister came to my church and started railing against the Masons I'd be mad too. It's like I said previously- a spiritual leader to my mind should build up, not tear down as this clergyman obviously had done. The main point is, though, that apart from a very questionable theological principle, this site does not mention any specifics as to why Freemasonry is bad. As usual, you bring nothiong new to the table. well, simply deny the related facts will not do it. if you want to learn something, you will have to take a closer look, and some time to read through the homepage. |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 11, 2008 22:20:03 GMT
Angelo, are you enjoying you time on the forum?
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 22:26:30 GMT
Angelo, are you enjoying you time on the forum? be shure, the moment i do not, anymore, i will stop to post |
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Post by leonardo on Jun 11, 2008 22:30:11 GMT
Angelo, are you enjoying you time on the forum? be shure, the moment i do not, anymore, i will stop to post See, it is possible to give a straight answer when you want to ;d |
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 11, 2008 23:02:53 GMT
This is post 666
Psalm 23
1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
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Post by elshamah on Jun 11, 2008 23:04:09 GMT
This is post 666 Psalm 23 1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. very nice. i loved that one. ;D |
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Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 0:16:08 GMT
there are enough homepages about Aleister Crowley and Thelema on the internet. There is no secret, that he was a horrible, disgusting human being, that many people , that had to do with him, died. He asked his followers to eat shit and things like that. Well..... i don't think its needed to go any further and expose what kind of dirt this guy was. Thelema You are an ignorant person. Scatology has nothing to do with Thelema. Aleister Crowley was not the most perfect human being who ever lived, but he was a magickal genius. That being said, he was nothing but the messenger. The Book of the Law is the message. |
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Post by droche on Jun 12, 2008 0:24:13 GMT
Huh? The only specific thing on this site that specifically states a reason to be against Freemasonry is when it says that Christ's theology is exclusive while Freemasonry's "theology" (even though Freemasonry does not have a theology) is inclusive. A lot of religious scholars, non-Masons included would disagree with that. He mentions a verse in Timothy that purports to be against Freemasonry but he doesn't say how. He says that Freemasonry is "Satan's Trojan Horse, but he doesn't say how. He mentions a verse in Genesis but that doesn't relate to anything about Freemasonry. His whole page just tells of the troubles he had with Masons in his church. Well, I can see why. If a new minister came to my church and started railing against the Masons I'd be mad too. It's like I said previously- a spiritual leader to my mind should build up, not tear down as this clergyman obviously had done. The main point is, though, that apart from a very questionable theological principle, this site does not mention any specifics as to why Freemasonry is bad. As usual, you bring nothiong new to the table. well, simply deny the related facts will not do it. if you want to learn something, you will have to take a closer look, and some time to read through the homepage. What are the related facts? |
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Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 0:37:31 GMT
"I admit that my visions can never mean to other men as much as they do to me. I do not regret this. All I ask is that my results should convince seekers after truth that there is beyond doubt something worth while seeking, attainable by methods more or less like mine. I do not want to father a flock, to be the fetish of fools and fanatics, or the founder of a faith whose followers are content to echo my opinions. I want each man to cut his own way through the jungle." - Aleister Crowley
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Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 0:40:48 GMT
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Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 1:17:25 GMT
What is Thelema? Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Thelema (”THEL-ay-mah”) is a Greek word meaning “will” or “intention”. It is also the name of a new spiritual philosophy which has arisen over the past several hundred years and is now gradually becoming established worldwide. One of the earliest mentions of this philosophy occurs in the classic Gargantua and Pantagruel written by Francois Rabelais in 1532. One episode of this epic adventure tells of the founding of an “Abbey of Thelema” as an institution for the cultivation of human virtues, which Rabelais identified as being squarely opposite the prevailing Christian proprieties of the time. The sole rule of the Abbey of Thelema was: “Do what thou wilt”. This has become one of the basic tenets of Thelemic philosophy today. Although touched upon by various prominent visionary thinkers in the following few hundred years, the seeds of Thelema sown by Rabelais eventually came to fruition in the early part of this century when developed by an Englishman named Aleister Crowley. Crowley was a poet, author, mountaineer, magician, and member of the occult society known as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. In 1904, while travelling in Egypt with his wife Rose, Crowley became inextricably involved in a series of events which he claimed to inaugurate a new aeon of human evolution. These culminated in April when Crowley entered a state of trance and wrote down the three chapters of 220 verses which came to be called The Book of the Law (also known as Liber AL and Liber Legis). Among other things, this book declared: “The word of the law is Thelema” and “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law”. Crowley spent the rest of his life developing the philosophy of Thelema as revealed by the Book of the Law. The result was a voluminous output of commentary and works relating to magick, mysticism, yoga, qabalah, and other occult subjects. Virtually all of this writing bears the influence of Thelema as interpreted and understood by Crowley in his capacity as prophet of the New Aeon. One theory holds that each chapter of the Book of the Law is associated with a particular aeon of human spiritual evolution. According to this view, Chapter One characterizes the Aeon of Isis, when the archetype of female divinity was paramount. Chapter Two relates to the Aeon of Osiris, when the archetype of the slain god became prominent, and the world’s patriarchal religions became established. Chapter Three heralds the dawning of a new aeon, the Aeon of Horus, the child of the Isis and Osiris. It is in this new aeon that the philosophy of Thelema will be fully revealed to humanity, and will become established as the primary paradigm for the spiritual evolution of the species. Some of the essential elements of belief in Thelema are: “Every man and every woman is a star.” This is usually taken to mean that each individual is unique and has their own path in a spacious universe wherein they can move freely without collision. “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.” and “thou hast no right but to do thy will.” Most Thelemites hold that every person possesses a True Will, a single overall motivation for their existence. The Law of Thelema mandates that each person follow their True Will to attain fulfillment in life and freedom from restriction of their nature. Because no two True Wills can be in real conflict (according to “Every man and every woman is a star”), this Law also prohibits one from interfering with the True Will of any other person. The notion of absolute freedom for an individual to follow his or her True Will is a cherished one among Thelemites. This philosophy also recognizes that the main task of an individual setting out on the path of Thelema is to first discover his or her True Will, giving methods of self-exploration such as magick great importance. Furthermore, every True Will is different, and because each person has a unique point-of-view of the universe, no one can determine the True Will for another person. Each person must arrive at the discovery for themselves. “Love is the law, love under will.” This is an important corollary to the above, indicating that the essential nature of the Law of Thelema is that of Love. Each individual unites with his or her True Self in Love, and so empowered, the entire universe of conscious beings unites with every other being in Love. Of course, with the emphasis on freedom and individuality inherent in Thelema, the beliefs of any given Thelemite are likely to differ from those of any other. In the Comment appended to The Book of the Law it is stated that: “All questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings, each for himself.” Although Thelema is sometimes referred to as a “religion”, it accommodates the full range of individual beliefs, from atheism to polytheism. The important thing is that each person has the right to fulfill themselves through whatever beliefs and actions are best suited to them (so long as they do not interfere with the will of others), and only they themselves are qualified to determine what these are.Love is the law, love under will. www.thelema101.com/intro.html |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 12, 2008 1:46:51 GMT
Thank you for posting this Maximus. "Do what thou will" is also the cornerstone of Levay Satanism. I have been to a couple of Gnostic Masses and they can be very beautiful. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by tedfromiowa on Jun 12, 2008 2:26:35 GMT
- why there are rituals - these link us with each other and the past. They also contain such messages that we need to drive into ourselves such as "helping poor and distressed masons, widows and orphans.. might you cite a homepage, which describes such a ritual ? i would like to give a closer look at. might you show me a page which shows these symbols. I would like to give a closer look at. why should freemasonry be needed for that ? so why are there things, a freemason should never reveal to a non freemason ? wheter do want I. ;D Still do not comprehend the last sentence. Check out the site for the Grand Lodge of Britsh Columbia and Yukon. Best thing I have found. freemasonry.bcy.ca/sitemap.html |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 2:27:42 GMT
there are enough homepages about Aleister Crowley and Thelema on the internet. There is no secret, that he was a horrible, disgusting human being, that many people , that had to do with him, died. He asked his followers to eat shit and things like that. Well..... i don't think its needed to go any further and expose what kind of dirt this guy was. Thelema You are an ignorant person. Scatology has nothing to do with Thelema. Aleister Crowley was not the most perfect human being who ever lived, but he was a magickal genius. That being said, he was nothing but the messenger. The Book of the Law is the message. so what do you find good abouth this book ? |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 2:28:42 GMT
well, simply deny the related facts will not do it. if you want to learn something, you will have to take a closer look, and some time to read through the homepage. What are the related facts? does i have to repeat ? read through the homepage, and you will know. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 2:38:24 GMT
You are an ignorant person. Scatology has nothing to do with Thelema. Aleister Crowley was not the most perfect human being who ever lived, but he was a magickal genius. That being said, he was nothing but the messenger. The Book of the Law is the message. so what do you find good abouth this book ? is the revelation of the Aeon of Horus, the Divine and Conquering Child. |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 4:06:07 GMT
so what do you find good abouth this book ? Liber AL is the revelation of the Aeon of Horus, the Divine and Conquering Child. So ? |
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