|
|
Post by maximus on Jun 12, 2008 4:15:29 GMT
so what do you find good abouth this book ? Liber AL is the revelation of the Aeon of Horus, the Divine and Conquering Child. So ? You are the one who asked. By your response, I can see that you are incapable intellectually of comprehending it. |
|
|
|
Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 11:09:59 GMT
You are the one who asked. By your response, I can see that you are incapable intellectually of comprehending it. yes, exactly. might you explain what's all about then ? |
|
|
|
Post by AndyF on Jun 12, 2008 11:23:31 GMT
Jun 9, 2008, 2:41, AndyF wrote:The stance of Freemasonry is that it tries be a fraternal organisation which holds Godliness in high regard, and would like to convey that without offending or excluding any particular faith. With this in mind, any brother who left Freemasonry because he felt it was at odds with his faith has merely misunderstood, or formed an interpretation of his own which was largely different from the organisation's intent. Freemasonry isn't neccessarily incompatible with Christianity. You can twist words as much as you like to make it look that way, but we've said from the start, and still maintain, that Freemasonry contains nothing of an anti-christian nature. I hope this addresses the testimonies of former freemasons on those sites you keep linking to. No one needs to be a Freemason. Certainly lots of people want to be one. The question shouldn't be "why", but "why not?". It wont grant you salvation, or provide you with religious instruction, but it can be a fulfilling way to interact with others who value charity, morality, and Godliness.
|
|
|
|
Post by AndyF on Jun 12, 2008 11:41:42 GMT
...and some other stuff you may have missed:
- Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. I was told when joining that if I was looking toward Lodge membership as a religion or a substitute for religion, not to bother applying.
- No one, and nothing, is worshipped in a Masonic lodge. This is mainly because it is not a religion. It offers no path to salvation. Religious discussion is banned in Lodge.
- There is no "universal ideal" of Freemasonry. This is like looking for the universal ideals of philosophers: they all have different ideas and often disagree. I'm sorry if this inconveniences you by making it difficult criticise us. We're all different, have different beliefs, and interpret the lessons and symbols of Freemasonry in our own way.
- Your church may say not to worship along side people of other faiths. This won't be a problem, as worship does not take place in a Masonic Lodge (mainly because it is not a religion). Are you allowed to sit in the same room as people from other faiths? If so, you'll be allowed to be a Freemason. Well, your church would allow you - no Masonic Lodge would consider your application after the way you've acted in this forum.
- People join Masonic Lodges because they want to, not because they need to.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jun 12, 2008 11:43:41 GMT
Bro. Andy, I don't think he missed anything.........just the point ;d
|
|
|
|
Post by gasturb on Jun 12, 2008 11:48:40 GMT
35 pages full of posts  you are all crazy ;D |
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jun 12, 2008 11:53:30 GMT
35 pages full of posts you are all crazy ;D No, not all of us. One poster seems to stand out more than others  |
|
|
|
Post by gasturb on Jun 12, 2008 11:59:44 GMT
ok then.. you are definitely not Leo  (just in case to avoid ban from the forum  ) |
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jun 12, 2008 12:02:44 GMT
ok then.. you are definitely not Leo (just in case to avoid ban from the forum ) Well, sycophants do get special treatment on this forum ;D |
|
|
|
Post by droche on Jun 12, 2008 12:08:59 GMT
What are the related facts? does i have to repeat ? read through the homepage, and you will know. You have been repeating throughout what is one of the longest threads in the history of Masonic forums, so, if you do have to repeat, it is your own doing. I read the link that you provided. I provided my analysis of it. You said to look at the related facts. So, I ask you again, what are the related facts? |
|
|
|
Post by droche on Jun 12, 2008 12:16:40 GMT
35 pages full of posts you are all crazy ;D In a perverse sort of way, it is fun. As I compared to previously, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I have never had an easier time picking off the absurdity of Anti-Masonic Theory. |
|
|
|
Post by AndyF on Jun 12, 2008 12:33:31 GMT
Elshamah's account of Aleister Crowley: there are enough homepages about Aleister Crowley and Thelema on the internet. There is no secret, that he was a horrible, disgusting human being, that many people , that had to do with him, died. He asked his followers to eat shit and things like that. Well..... i don't think its needed to go any further and expose what kind of dirt this guy was. King James Version's account of the God of the Old Testament: |
|
|
|
Post by gasturb on Jun 12, 2008 13:15:57 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by gasturb on Jun 12, 2008 13:20:04 GMT
35 pages full of posts you are all crazy ;D In a perverse sort of way, it is fun. As I compared to previously, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I have never had an easier time picking off the absurdity of Anti-Masonic Theory. hehe keep it up my friend and i ll try to find a free weekend to .. read them all (hope so ;D) |
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Jun 12, 2008 13:30:49 GMT
35 pages full of posts you are all crazy ;D In a perverse sort of way, it is fun. As I compared to previously, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I have never had an easier time picking off the absurdity of Anti-Masonic Theory. That's right. The fundamentalists "arguments" against Freemasonry fail miserably when faced with the facts. They just don't stand up! |
|
|
|
Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 16:05:04 GMT
- Your church may say not to worship along side people of other faiths. This won't be a problem, as worship does not take place in a Masonic Lodge (mainly because it is not a religion). Are you allowed to sit in the same room as people from other faiths? If so, you'll be allowed to be a Freemason. Well, your church would allow you - no Masonic Lodge would consider your application after the way you've acted in this forum. - People join Masonic Lodges because they want to, not because they need to. It's not my church, but the book which is the base of my faith : the bible. And it does not have to do only with worshiping, but with much more : 6:14 Do not become partners21 with those who do not believe, for what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship does light have with darkness?So it says not to be partners. A freemason is much more than just a partner with other freemasons : it becomes a brother. So more clear the bible could not give the message to " christian " freemasons : they disobey the command of the bible clearly.
6:15 And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar?22 Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 6:16 And what mutual agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are23 the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them24 and will walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”25 6:17And that is the advice, i give in Jesus Name , and in the authority of the word of God :
Therefore “come out from their midst, and be separate,” says the Lord, “and touch no unclean thing,26 and I will welcome27 you,28 6:18 and I will be a father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters,”29 says the All-Powerful Lord.30God bless all freemasons, that are christians, and have the courage to obey the God of the bible, and do so. They certainly will be tremendously blessed. |
|
|
|
Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 16:10:18 GMT
if freemasons do not recognize my arguments, it does not mean they are not valid. Lets give a look at the GAOTU " G-d" of the freemasons : i cite from : www.religiouscounterfeits.org/ml_gaotu.htmThe Freemasonry Organization refers to God as " Great Architect Of The Universe " or the G.A.O.T.U. This particular idea about God has been around long before the Freemasons formally chose to call him that. But the question is: What exactly does it mean when the call God " The Great Architect "? We need then to read some of their Masonic literature to find out! In Masonry, the "Great Architect Of The Universe ", who is the Masonic God has some of the attributes of the God of the Bible, such as infinity, eternity, and omnipotence. However, the Masonic God does not have any qualities such as mercy, love, and benevolence. "Coils Masonic Encyclopedia", Henry Coils, page 516, 517 says: "Men have decided whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Yahweh, a partisan tribal God, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal undenominational, and international, divine spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man, that he cannot be known, named, or approached. So soon as man begins to laud his God and endow him with the most perfect human attributes such as justice, mercy, beneficence, etc., the Divine Essence is depreciated and despoiled. The Masonic test (for admission) is a Supreme Being, and any qualification added is an innovation and distortion." Here the Biblical God is being rejected as an inferior concept of God, while the universal God of Masonry is extolled. Masonry teaches also that God is unapproachable, but the Bible tells of God as being able to be approached by man, through Jesus Christ. The Masonic God is said to be "incapable of anger", pg. 718, Morals and Dogma, Albert Pike. But the Bible tells us that God is angry at sin and also loving and merciful to those who repent. This "Great Architect Of The Universe " that the Freemasons worship is just like the "Universal It" or "Force" that the New Age Religion believes in. That is because the New Age Movement is just one of the many vehicles through which Satan works to bring in his evil pantheistic ideas to the people, and he is enjoying great success! |
|
|
|
Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 16:30:41 GMT
In a perverse sort of way, it is fun. As I compared to previously, it is like shooting fish in a barrel. I have never had an easier time picking off the absurdity of Anti-Masonic Theory. That's right. The fundamentalists "arguments" against Freemasonry fail miserably when faced with the facts. They just don't stand up! that is what you claim, however, without reason. Let's face the facts and see. 1. The arguments do have only relevance in face of the christian faith. For who is not a christian, the presented facts do not have any meaning anyway. However, for who is a christian, certainly, they do. I continue to claim, freemasonry is in its essence satanic inspired, with satanic objectives and goals, and so far, does not combine in any way and should not be joined by christians of any denomination and confession. the above versicle of the bible mentioned itself does give already enough reason for a christian, NOT to join freemasonry. But there are many more. Lets just give a example. I'll take one of the presented homepages of the members here : www.droit-humain.org/uk/html/links.htmlone of the linked pages at this homepage is : www.theosophical-society.org.uk/is there any doubt theosophie is satanic ? i don't think so. if give a search at google, there is enough information to proof this. just a example : www.whale.to/b/blavatsky_h.htmlHome of Theosophical (Blavatskyian) Satanism cathedralofsatan.tripod.com/i think that should not left any doubt's. So continue to assert what i say is pointless ? |
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Jun 12, 2008 16:43:50 GMT
AndyF, per that reference in Ezekiel, the passage doesn't talk about eating human feces but the fuel used to bake the bread. Wood and other fuels, then and now, are in short supply in that region and dung (animal, generally bovine), once dried, makes a good fuel. It's still done today: www.bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/apro/dung/Aprodung.htmwww.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/07/dung_battery/www.oilgae.com/energy/sou/ae/re/be/fa/cd/cd.htmlHowever, using human feces for fuel would be considered unnatural, almost like cannibalism. Ezekiel is asked to do this so that "Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." The God of the Bible seems to be into this sort of allegorical display with his prophets (have a look at what he makes Hosea do). So it's not that Ezekiel is speading human feces pate on his bread, it's what he's using to build the fire to bake it. Elshamah, y'all are coming very close to saying something that AntiMasons have said here before you. That it's not that Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity but that it does not promote Christianity to the exclusion of all others. Or, more to the point, that Freemasonry does not promote certain brands of Christianity to the exclusion of all other forms of Christianity, in addition to excluding all other religions. This reflects the intolerance of AntiMasons and their witch finding ways. Rather than build up to that point, y'all may want to explore it immediately and in detail. For while none of your other accusations have stuck (largely because they're just not true), the fact that Freemasonry doesn't promote Christianity to the exclusion of all other religions is, in fact, quite true. And is the real reason you are here. To your minds, Freemasonry's greatest sin is Her rejection of the stake and the rack and the stones and other implements of the witch finders such as yourselves. In other words, the intolerance y'all embrace and seek to force upon others is utterly rejected by Freemasonry. And that is why y'all fear Her as you do. For She never will empower y'all to do what y'all and others like y'all have done in the past. Since this is the truth, I suggest you pursue it with all the vigor with which y'all have pursued your slanders for 35 pages now. I think you may find there's gold in this debate about intolerance vs tolerance, where there's been only lead before. |
|
|
|
Post by droche on Jun 12, 2008 16:48:56 GMT
Coils is not saying what God Masonry worships. Coils is talking about the differing concepts of God out there, all of which are acceptable to Freemasonry, and thus, Freemasonry has rejected nothing in this regard as your distortion of the passage falsely claims. You can also quit beating the dead horse of Pike. You have been told countless times that his writings are his own opinion and are not official Masonic positions.
By the way, I am still waiting for you to explain the related "facts" as regards Pierce Dobson's experience with Masons. You stated previously that you would like to debate one thing at a time, so do so.
|
|
you are all crazy ;D
(just in case to avoid ban from the forum 
