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Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 23:49:56 GMT
So there you have it Brethren , Elshamah has spoken "it's pure Satanism" What need do we have of further debate or discussion HE KNOWS! HE HAS SPOKEN!Back in the REAL world however..................................  have i said i finished ? no , i have not !! more to come !! www.religiouscounterfeits.org/ml_serpent.htm The Freemasonry Organization is permeated with Serpent Worship! To worship the Serpent means to worship the Devil himself, for it was he who stealthily posed as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden in order to better deceive Eve. Lucifer represents Life Thought Progress Civilization Liberty Independence Lucifer is the Logos the Serpent, the Saviour. " H.P. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, Vol. II pg. 171,225,255 Lets see what the Masons have to say about the Serpent being "The Savior" "The Serpent is universally esteemed a legitimate symbol of Freemasonry." George Oliver, Signs and Symbols , New York, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1906, p. 36 Did you hear that? The Serpent is the "legitimate symbol" of Freemasonry! This is another admission by this Masonic author that Freemasonry worships Satan! But now let's hear how they regard the Serpent as "Savior of the World, just as Helena Blavatsky, the "Mother of the New Age Movement " said that they do: "The serpent is the symbol and prototype of the Universal Savior, who redeems the worlds by giving creation the knowledge of itself and the realization of good and evil." Manly P. Hall, 33 Degree Mason, The Secret Teachings of All Ages more to be said ?  |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 12, 2008 23:56:13 GMT
If however you are moving toward Satanic meaning, then you can leave me and mine [99% of Freemasonry] well out of it. I want no part of anything that resembles anything evil or has any evil intent. I have, in 35 years of occult scholarship and practice, never found anything "evil" or "satanic" about it. As you say, "occult" is simply Latin for "hidden." This implies knowledge that is "hidden" from those who have not eyes to see. Even "Satanists" are not purly "evil." I have known and spoken at length with Satanists, of both the LaVeyan variety and Theistic Satanists. The LaVeyans do not believe in a literal Satan at all, theirs is a Humanistic Philosophy, couched in the symbolism of "Satanism." The Theistic variety do believe in a literal Satan, but see him as the true, liberating Deity, and believe that the God of the Bible is a false god, who trapped mankind s spirits in the material world. Both are Left-Hand Path (LHP) disciplines, whereas Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc. are Right Hand Path (RHP). Both are branches of the same tree; one a shodow of the other, a relflection. Neither path is a true evil, a Black Brotherhood. Freemasonry is a RHP Brotherhood, one of the Light, even in the traditional Craft degrees, although most do not realise what power they are tapping into.
A Black brother is one who, upon the threshold of the Abyss, refuses to surrender his own ego in sacrifice to the greater good, thus turning back into himself. There are the true evil. thank you very much. I you freely admitted that all i am saying is true !! Did you get that ? I repeat it again : You have admitted freely, that all, i am saying, is true. thanks a lot. you have made it a lot easier for me. 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself27 as an angel of light. |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 13, 2008 0:24:52 GMT
11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself27 as an angel of light. And from what I can tell, he freely calls himself, "elshamah." In order to call himself elshamah he would have to exist  He clearly does not. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 13, 2008 0:29:32 GMT
It depends on your meaning of the word occult : If you wish to invoke the above meaning then fine. If however you are moving toward Satanic meaning, then you can leave me and mine [99% of Freemasonry] well out of it. I want no part of anything that resembles anything evil or has any evil intent. Like many things in Freemasonry it depends on where you sit. I maintain there are three degrees in Freemasonry and everything else is an add on. I don't have a problem with the add ons, [additional orders] just that they must not be superior to the main body. I really hope this doesn't turn into another online "my Freemasonry is better than yours" ad nauseum saga. FYI: the Rite's that have been labled "occult" all contain the 3 "Craft" degrees. Their flavor of those degrees of course but the lessons remain in tact. As do those that are in the "Antient" and "Modern" classification. I personally find the "occult" Rites to me right up my alley. I find those workings to be very powerful and beautiful. You should step outside your comfort zone and explore a little. www.godvsthebible.com |
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Post by maximus on Jun 13, 2008 0:45:30 GMT
thank you very much. I you freely admitted that all i am saying is true !! Did you get that ? I repeat it again : You have admitted freely, that all, i am saying, is true. thanks a lot. you have made it a lot easier for me. 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself27 as an angel of light. This collective entity calling itself "Angelo" did not understand a word of what I wrote. |
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Post by droche on Jun 13, 2008 0:54:17 GMT
hi all my name is Angelo. I am swiss, and live over ten years in Brazil. I am a born again evangelical christian. I am open to talk with everyone, that would like to know better my faith. I think, there exist many pre - judgements, that might be clarified. I am not disposed and interested to convert anybody here. This is a personal decision. I am just here to testify my faith to anyone, that would like to know more and understand it better. i do not want to disrespect your faith, philosophy and convictions, and expect the same from you. So who has pre judgements , and has no interest, to change it, i am asking at least to respect my faith. So now to my first question : what is the reason that lead you to freemasonry , or whatever else has to do with it ? And, what positive do you expect for your life, beeing involved with it ? Angelo This is his first post. Look at it and look at how his posts have evolved and one can see all the bald-faced lies and the false pretenses under which he came to this forum. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 13, 2008 1:12:16 GMT
This collective entity calling itself "Angelo" did not understand a word of what I wrote. ...and this SURPRISES you? Sadly, no. I was talking to Bill, anyway. At least he has a brain.  |
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Post by maximus on Jun 13, 2008 1:16:20 GMT
hi all my name is Angelo. I am swiss, and live over ten years in Brazil. I am a born again evangelical christian. I am open to talk with everyone, that would like to know better my faith. I think, there exist many pre - judgements, that might be clarified. I am not disposed and interested to convert anybody here. This is a personal decision. I am just here to testify my faith to anyone, that would like to know more and understand it better. i do not want to disrespect your faith, philosophy and convictions, and expect the same from you. So who has pre judgements , and has no interest, to change it, i am asking at least to respect my faith. So now to my first question : what is the reason that lead you to freemasonry , or whatever else has to do with it ? And, what positive do you expect for your life, beeing involved with it ? Angelo This is his first post. Look at it and look at how his posts have evolved and one can see all the bald-faced lies and the false pretenses under which he came to this forum. Yes, this is SOP for Fundamentalists of whatever stripe. Deception against the unbeliever. Hey, that sounds... familiar.  |
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Post by elshamah on Jun 13, 2008 1:52:01 GMT
i don't know for what reason people here think, there is more than one person posting. first time that happens with me. and completely untrue. I am a christian, and to say the truth is one of the utmost priorities to follow and serve Christ. Absolutely no reason to lie. To post something that is not yours and not give attribution is wrong, deceptive, a lie, sinful and unChristian. It does not take a rocket scientist to connect the dots on this one. The brand of Christianity that you promote is unattractive to those of us who are their Word and are Moral. What you do and who your are truly comes across as satanic, the very thing that you accuse Freemasons of practicing. You waste your time trying to prove that you are your word and that you are moral. The very things that you accuse Freemasons of, you do. You cannot be trusted. You have proven this time and again. To make an effort to testify is just spilling some very bad rotting seed. It will never live. It is already dead for it has no potential that is good. P in this case, you loose your time, participating at this thread. |
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Post by tedfromiowa on Jun 13, 2008 2:52:28 GMT
Coils is not saying what God Masonry worships. Coils is talking about the differing concepts of God out there, all of which are acceptable to Freemasonry, and thus, Freemasonry has rejected nothing in this regard as your distortion of the passage falsely claims. You can also quit beating the dead horse of Pike. You have been told countless times that his writings are his own opinion and are not official Masonic positions. By the way, I am still waiting for you to explain the related "facts" as regards Pierce Dobson's experience with Masons. You stated previously that you would like to debate one thing at a time, so do so. ok. first thing : Freemasonry must be understood not by its cover but by the philosophy, teachings, and spiritual forces which lie behind it I am not an anti-mason, but I am against Freemasonry, a philosophical system which is opposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ Possibly this man had understood enough of the teachings of Freemasonry to realize that what I was saying contradicted the theology of Freemasonry.just to hold on this. Since freemasons talk about GAOTU, we can conclude, freemasonry has in fact a doctrine and theology of its own. Despite it claims its not a religion. Most Masons never pick up that contradiction. In fact few do! But the two systems of thought are as far apart as the east and the west, and they cannot be reconciled.ok, there are 2 different systems of thought. Interesting to know. Despite the fact, that freemasons claim, freemasonry has nothing to do with religion, there is however a thought, that has to do with theology. And it's thought is contrary to the thought of the bible. One is a broad road and one a narrow road, and they don't lead to the same destination. that's clearly the first point, that should a christian make to think about. Afterwards one deacon remarked to some of his peers that he would give up being a deacon before he would give up his lodge membership. Does that say something about where his loyalty lay? That's what Jesus meant when he said a man could not serve two masters. interesting , isn't it ? Marco Polo preferes to defend freemasonry, but when the God of the old testament comes under atack, he remains passive and quiet..... who is at first place in your life, mr. marco polo ? "The issue here is truth". His response was quite revealing to those who understand the philosophy of Freemasonry. He said that what was true for me was not necessarily true for him. Had I been talking to New Ager, Shirley McLaine, the comment would have been expected, but this was a Baptist deacon who also apparently had ingested the deadly, false philosophy of Freemasonry. one more clear sign : freemasonry is not compatible with a christian. the philosophy and beliefs are different. But that church's rebellious spirit, or at least some of its members' rebellious spirit against God ordained leadership, is not an isolated problem; it is to some extent found in many of the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention. Some Southern Baptists don't understand authority as God has established it. The same spirit of rebellion rampant in our nation is tragically at work among the people of God and Freemasonry is its ally. to be a freemason, means rebellion against the God of the bible !! This Trojan horse can expose an individual and a church to the powers of darkness because of its occultic nature and its false gospel, both of which are not readily apparent to most of its initiates.Be aware of this !! I must not fail to point out that it serves a subversive function, not only as a means of invading thousands of churches, but as a means of invading our political, judicial, military, and law enforcement systems, thus helping to undermine these areas of our society as well and subverting our republican form of government, paving the way for the New World Order.
And because of the victory of Jesus Christ in His life, death, and resurrection, I have assurance of His ultimate victory over all forms of evil, including Freemasonry. Hallelujah! What a Savior! However, keep in mind that the enemy is not the Mason himself, it is Satan (Lucifer), "the angel of light", and his demonic host who assist him. Christians are to love all men, but we are to expose the works of darkness (Ephesians 5:11), defend the faith (Jude 2), and call all men to repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21)."It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude."The above quote is not from the original poster of this name. This is from another person most definiately. |
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Post by tedfromiowa on Jun 13, 2008 3:05:00 GMT
It boils down to this. I am a Christian. No man can deny me of that. I happen to be a Freemason. It is not in conflict in any way.
No matter what Angelo, or whomever the others are, say, they can not deny my faith between God and myself.
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Post by elshamah on Jun 13, 2008 3:14:37 GMT
It boils down to this. I am a Christian. No man can deny me of that. I happen to be a Freemason. It is not in conflict in any way. No matter what Angelo, or whomever the others are, say, they can not deny my faith between God and myself. you are free to simply ignore the presented facts . Who is loosing in this case. is you. |
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Post by maat on Jun 13, 2008 3:26:28 GMT
Who is loosing in this case. is you. Happy? ;D We mason's always aim to please ;D ;D Maat Rainy Fridays (13th) is my talking to walls day... Maat, bad girl! Wait till your mother gets home... |
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 13, 2008 4:10:34 GMT
It is lifted off the Ex Masons for Jesus web site. The quote comes from Pierce Dodson - This is information page at masonicinfo: We sometimes wonder about the discernment abilities of a 'pastor' who can read one small anti-Masonic book filled with lies and on that basis decide that an organization of 3-5 million men, many of whom are clerics, is anti-Christian. Dodson (who endorses the lies propounded by Jim Shaw in his book, "The Deadly Deception") went to a church in an unnamed Tennessee town "...(hoping) that the church was not full of Masons." It's odd that someone who wants to save souls seemed so threatened. Based on his attendance at a Southern Baptist Convention meeting where a resolution was discussed (see our page on Larry Holly for more information), his preconceived notions were affirmed. All of his subsequent problems with his church were then - in his mind at least - the result of the "New World Order" and Freemasonry. He cites a statement by a Deacon saying that he'd rather give up being a Deacon than quit the Masonic Lodge. Dodson cites this as an example of his lack of Christianity. To others reading such a statement, it's quite clear that this Deacon had no intention of giving up his religion or renouncing his beliefs in Christ; rather, he was willing to abdicate a position of church leadership if it meant there would be a conflict with a fraternity to which he belonged. Dodson quotes Adrian Rogers who said, in part, that "...it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude." In reality, Dodson stands virtually alone in this case with lies and wrong. A speaker and supporter of the Ephesians 5-11 "ministry", you can read Dodson's laments there, where he states that he has not taken a pastorate since 1992 and has been effectively 'banned by the Masons'. Perhaps one might wonder about the motivations for this person's position.... www.masonicinfo.com/others_pg1.htm |
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 13, 2008 4:32:57 GMT
It cannot be overemphasized that the serpent or snake plays no role in the teachings or ritual of regular Freemasonry. Its introduction as a fastener for masonic aprons is easily seen as the work of regalia manufacturers. That said, the symbolic usages of the snake are of interest to students of religion, esoterica, and of history. On the other hand, George Oliver writes that the serpent is a "significant symbol in Freemasonry : Moses' rod changed into a serpent,1 "The serpentine emblem of Masonry... is a bright symbol of Hope; for the promised Deliverer will open the gates of Heaven to his faithful followers by bruising its head, and they shall enter triumphantly, trampling on its prostrate body." "A striking emblem of Christianity triumphant; and bearing an undoubted reference to the promise made to Adam after his unhappy fall."2 In mainstream Christian beliefs, the snake represents temptation and evil: the snake is the servant of Satan. But it has also had its more positive significance. Helena Petrovna Blavatsky July 30, 1831 - May 8, 1891 Russian born author of Isis Unvealed and The Secret Doctrine, Madame Blavatsky, with the American Colonel Henry Steel Olcott, founded the Theosophical Society in 1875. Although she was presented with a Certificate of the Rite of Adoption by John Yarker in 1877, she had no association with regular Freemasonry. freemasonry.bcy.ca/Bio for her: www.blavatskyarchives.com/longseal.htmcheck this Womans travel intinery, she must have been quite an amazing individual, but I just cant see how she stood still long enough to take part in any Masonic group activity at all. |
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 13, 2008 4:47:50 GMT
If however you are moving toward Satanic meaning, then you can leave me and mine [99% of Freemasonry] well out of it. I want no part of anything that resembles anything evil or has any evil intent. I have, in 35 years of occult scholarship and practice, never found anything "evil" or "satanic" about it. As you say, "occult" is simply Latin for "hidden." This implies knowledge that is "hidden" from those who have not eyes to see. Even "Satanists" are not purly "evil." I have known and spoken at length with Satanists, of both the LaVeyan variety and Theistic Satanists. The LaVeyans do not believe in a literal Satan at all, theirs is a Humanistic Philosophy, couched in the symbolism of "Satanism." The Theistic variety do believe in a literal Satan, but see him as the true, liberating Deity, and believe that the God of the Bible is a false god, who trapped mankind s spirits in the material world. Both are Left-Hand Path (LHP) disciplines, whereas Golden Dawn, Thelema, Wicca, etc. are Right Hand Path (RHP). Both are branches of the same tree; one a shodow of the other, a relflection. Neither path is a true evil, a Black Brotherhood. Freemasonry is a RHP Brotherhood, one of the Light, even in the traditional Craft degrees, although most do not realise what power they are tapping into. A Black brother is one who, upon the threshold of the Abyss, refuses to surrender his own ego in sacrifice to the greater good, thus turning back into himself. There are the true evil. For the philosophical thinker you may well be right, but the reality of life is that as soon as you mention Satan, the world turns against you. Satan or at least the word represents evil as far as the physical world is concerned. it seems to me that just as Freemasonry uses a term GAoTU to decribe the individuals god, then an intelligent response would be to create another term for that entity in like manner. Use of the word Satan in or attached to Freemasonry gives credence to elshamah accusations and I have to be honest makes me very uncomfortable. If I thought that there was any connection or that it portayed any connection, I would have to leave Freemasonry, I also believe that vast numbers, and I do mean VAST numbers, of Freemasons would be the same as me. I also have to be honest and say that comments like "although most do not realise what power they are tapping into." makes me shudder, it is not the Freemasonry that I witness every day of the week. My Masonry has both feet firmly planted on the ground and has no other purpose other than to spread love and affection, belief in God, and the practical improvement of oneself, for the benefit of all. I have no objection to those who wish to examine further, but it is not the core of Freemasonry to be thus. It should never , in my opinion, be a replacement for any Religious doctrine or belief. |
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Post by maximus on Jun 13, 2008 5:14:58 GMT
Use of the word Satan in or attached to Freemasonry gives credence to elshamah accusations and I have to be honest makes me very uncomfortable. No one, other than the collective that is elshamah, has mentioned Satan in connection with Freemasonry. I said that I have talked to Satanists. I have studied thier beliefs, as I have studied the beliefs of many different paths, in order to understand them from a basis of knowledge, rather than a priori assumptions. The emphasised portion of your quote is precisely the power that I am referring to. Think of it like this: All over the world, at any given point in time, there are thousands, hundreds of thousands, of individuals and groups that are calling on the forces of the Light, in order to spread that goodwill that you refer to. Think of it as a canopy, spreading out to cover the earth, a conopy of love. "Love is the law, love under will." This is the force that Masonic ritual, and, indeed, any spiritual ritual whatever, is accomplishing: Erecting a "shield" of love and goodwill over mankind, to hold back the forces of darkness and hatred. And my spiritual explorations were not undertaken as a part of Freemasonry. I have been a Freemason for less than two years, but have been exploring the "hidden Mysteries" for, as I said, thirty-five years now, since I was thirteen. I hope you do not misunderstand what I am saying here, Bill. The collective that is elshamah will misunderstand, because that is thier nature. |
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Jun 13, 2008 5:29:58 GMT
Rainy Fridays (13th) is my talking to walls day... Maat, bad girl! Wait till your mother gets home... OMG!!! Tomorrow *is* Friday the 13th!! Move over, Bro. Ma'at. I mean, I know Bro. Cora and Bro. Droche are already under the table with you but there has *got* to be room for me, too  |
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Post by maximus on Jun 13, 2008 5:33:10 GMT
Rainy Fridays (13th) is my talking to walls day... Maat, bad girl! Wait till your mother gets home... OMG!!! Tomorrow *is* Friday the 13th!! Move over, Bro. Ma'at. I mean, I know Bro. Cora and Bro. Droche are already under the table with you but there has *got* to be room for me, too Don't fear the 13. ;D It won't hurt you. |
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Post by thevoiceofreason on Jun 13, 2008 6:06:58 GMT
"The 28th degree of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, the Knight of the Sun (Prince Adept), incorporates the Worm Ouroboros (the dragon, or serpent, holding his own tail in his mouth), into its iconography, representing the immortal and eternal principle as well as both love and wisdom. The 25th degree, The Knight of The Brazen Serpent, also incorporates this symbol." George Oliver Also, in the higher degrees of Misraim, Memphis and Memphis Misraim the Ouroboros makes an appearance. You might not consider this "regular" but oh well, Freemasonry is Freemasonry. www.godvsthebible.com |
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He clearly does not.
