|
Post by corab on Sept 23, 2008 12:01:12 GMT
Bill, LDH says "Freemasonry expects from its members, obedience to civil laws as defined by the country in which they reside. Masonic principles do not conflict with a citizen's duties, they reinforce them. These principles are the strength which underlies the personal fulfilment of a member's public and private responsibilities. A member's duty as a citizen is paramount and takes precedence over any other obligation. Freemasons must never exploit their membership for personal gain or on behalf of any outside interest, as this is contrary to the teachings of Freemasonry." None say it is for the furtherment of mystical knowledge. You're citing from the main website here; from that of the Order. Each Federation has a different focus, and that of the British Federation is very firmly on the spiritual aspect. It is enshrined in our internal policies, and promulgated through everything we do. It is the life blood of our most-used ritual, the Lauderdale: "...we regard it as our special work to pour the water of esoteric knowledge into the Masonic vessels, and as an initiate of the ... Lodge you are called to do this work." From the Mystic Charge in the 1'. None of this impairs the fundamental principles of betterment -- we are all called to smoothe and prepare our rough stone so that ultimately it may become an ornament in the Temple not made by human hands. S&F, Cora
|
|
|
Post by johnford on Sept 23, 2008 12:17:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Sept 23, 2008 13:07:07 GMT
au contriare mon Cora www.droit-humain.org/uk/html/society.htmlI am a hopeless case John - Pretty lights - illuminations of the third kind. I have spent many hours meditation, I have spent much time reading the Bible and the Koran. I have had thousands of conversations with peoples from every continent. At the end of the Day, a good man, is a good man , is a good man. [ or substitute - woman ] all else is window dressing. I can remember walking the streets of London and a man was walking along with a billboard over his shoulders, he was shouting the 'Kingdom of heaven is here, God is amoung us.' After 40 years I now believe he was right. It may have been similar when John the Baptist said: " Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love." Ghandi said: In the attitude of silence the soul finds the path in a clearer light, and what is elusive and deceptive resolves itself into crystal clearness. Our life is a long and arduous quest after Truth.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Sept 23, 2008 13:31:29 GMT
Then what is the prime purpose Bro. Steve ?
Bro. Chris
Maybe I could pinch your motto "Perseverando Conficere".
I had one friend commit suicide, I stopped one from doing so and another was dragged from a car and revived from a non breathing state. They all had problems the 2 survivors went on to a reasonable life I believe. But most of their troubles were made by their own actions, their own stupidity.
You can call 'hitting the wife' a dark force I suppose, or the 'Wife cheating on you' could be called such. What I saw Russell was people just plain and simple being selfish and cruel.
We may just be using a different language, and my terminology is no better or worse than yours.
Maat, yes, Trust is the first step on the road to Faith as Cora was explaining. I don't see how you can have one without the other. The first lesson a Mason learns is Trust, to have enough Faith in your leader and Trust him to make sure you come to no harm. But in each case we are trusting and having Faith in another person.
Now if you can say to me that this complete trust is where the Supreme Being is, then we are in complete agreement.
"God is Love" after all.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Sept 23, 2008 16:39:45 GMT
"Then what is the prime purpose Bro. Steve ?"
I can only answer for myself. Enlightenment and guidance of my inner facets. If this has "Made me a better man" then that is for others to decide as best they can in this life and for a far greater Judge to assess in the next. It is NOT for me to say.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Sept 23, 2008 18:14:32 GMT
At the end of the Day, a good man, is a good man , is a good man. [ or substitute - woman ] all else is window dressing. This how I have come to see thing. I know people from all walks of life, religions, race, etc... you name it I either know or have met someone from all backgrounds and then some, and the conclusion I have reached is none of them make the person. The person may re-evaluate their outlook on things after they've delved a little deeper into what ever religion (or version of the Craft) they have come to be part of but ultimately it is the person who'll need to make whatever changes are deemed necessary. The religion, or Path, simply provides the tools but it's the individual who needs to put them to use.
|
|
|
Post by maat on Sept 23, 2008 23:56:56 GMT
Maat, yes, Trust is the first step on the road to Faith as Cora was explaining. I don't see how you can have one without the other. The first lesson a Mason learns is Trust, to have enough Faith in your leader and Trust him to make sure you come to no harm. But in each case we are trusting and having Faith in another person. Now if you can say to me that this complete trust is where the Supreme Being is, then we are in complete agreement. "God is Love" after all. Ah - now here we may be being directed to the Inner World of Understanding. I have no expectation, trust or faith, whatsoever, that my God of Love will make sure that no harm befalls me during Earthly life! What person has ever lived without a measure of despair or disaster in their lives? And it seems the holier you are the worse the disaster.. Jesus, et al. Surely innocent little babes murdered by their own parents, are more deserving than I to be protected by the great God of Love, and heaven help us I dread reading the newspapers these days, they often move me to despair. Trouble is God loves the murderous parents as much as the babe... and this is where we sometimes find it hard to have trust and faith that the God of Love knows more than we and that there is a grand purpose to all that is in our world. When we walk through the door of the lodge, we become fragmented (two pillars) we are shown the pavement (just as much black as white) we are given aprons and told of the great work we must do if we are to know the Light, we are threatened and warned, we are told in the first we must persevere, we are asked in the 30th if we are sure we want to continue... clearly this is not a nice cosy life we have embarked upon. We are in complete agreement here... it's the only place left to go a lot of the time. The inner world can overrule the outer world. Had no place to go once, threw my hands up to heaven (literally) and told God I couldn't handle it, so I'm giving the situation back to Him (and in a very annoyed tone I have to say). That was the forerunner to my very first 'other worldy' experience - which literally was a messenger from the inner world. Calmness and acceptance was the outcome. I have to remind myself of this experience sometimes... especially when I do read the papers. Maat
|
|
|
Post by maat on Sept 23, 2008 23:59:27 GMT
John!
So nice to see you back! And I LOVED the video. Thank you.
Maat
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Sept 24, 2008 0:09:55 GMT
>I have no expectation, trust or faith, whatsoever, that my God of Love will make sure that no harm befalls me during Earthly life!
I understand that and somewhat agree with it - partly because much karma is group karma and falls on convenient brethren rather than those instrumental in its establishment
On the other hand synchronicities can be so precise as to make one wonder how much effort goes into such things.
Here is a trivial one. Many years ago I lived in a community and earned no income. I was told in meditation that the amount of money I possessed was more precise than I could understand. And I did not understand the comment but it stuck in my memory.
About 4 years later I had left the community and finally found a job. After my first pay I bought a car with my remaining savings. There was a mild cosmic joke with the car itself but it was the car that I was intended to have. And having bought it, I had $10 to my name. And I remembered the original comment about the precision of my funds.
So on one hand the god is system-oriented and on the other allows or promotes quite person-specific outcomes
|
|
|
Post by johnford on Sept 24, 2008 1:48:12 GMT
I am a hopeless case John - Pretty lights - illuminations of the third kind. Bill, you are not a hopeless case at all. The video clip I think demonstrates the hurdle needed to be jumped - it's in the 'seeing' - to see from a different perspective. The young man in the flashy business suit and dark glasses saw in the sign something that was missing. By changing the origination a different meaning was conveyed that connected the man's blindness to what others took for granted. The sign was a symbol for something else - a reality others missed because they took the beautiful day for granted. The man's blindness did not change nor did the beautiful day. What changed was the perspective. There is nothing magical about this process. The symbols in the Lodge, the ritual we perform have definite interpretations but when we look from a different perspective then we gain another meaning - perhaps the truer meaning. Too often it seems we take those symbols and rituals for granted. It does take practice. Quite so. But is not your 'good man' also a symbol? Was the man in the flashy suit and dark glasses a good man? If so, what was 'good' about him? Could I emulate him? Probably not. But I can appreciate the lesson.
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Sept 24, 2008 13:23:42 GMT
>I have no expectation, trust or faith, whatsoever, that my God of Love will make sure that no harm befalls me during Earthly life! I understand that and somewhat agree with it - partly because much karma is group karma and falls on convenient brethren rather than those instrumental in its establishment On the other hand synchronicities can be so precise as to make one wonder how much effort goes into such things. Here is a trivial one. Many years ago I lived in a community and earned no income. I was told in meditation that the amount of money I possessed was more precise than I could understand. And I did not understand the comment but it stuck in my memory. About 4 years later I had left the community and finally found a job. After my first pay I bought a car with my remaining savings. There was a mild cosmic joke with the car itself but it was the car that I was intended to have. And having bought it, I had $10 to my name. And I remembered the original comment about the precision of my funds. So on one hand the god is system-oriented and on the other allows or promotes quite person-specific outcomes Goodnight
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Sept 24, 2008 15:12:28 GMT
Nice self portrait you've posted there Philip!
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Sept 24, 2008 19:51:51 GMT
Nice self portrait you've posted there Philip! Uh..., thanks Steve!... I guess!?
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Sept 24, 2008 20:11:50 GMT
On the other hand synchronicities can be so precise as to make one wonder how much effort goes into such things.
Here is a trivial one. Many years ago I lived in a community and earned no income. I was told in meditation that the amount of money I possessed was more precise than I could understand. And I did not understand the comment but it stuck in my memory.
About 4 years later I had left the community and finally found a job. After my first pay I bought a car with my remaining savings. There was a mild cosmic joke with the car itself but it was the car that I was intended to have. And having bought it, I had $10 to my name. And I remembered the original comment about the precision of my funds. Trivial indeed: In Australia the smallest cash unit is five cents, so at any one time there is a one in twenty chance of having a precisely rounded dollar amount. Earlier this week I had only $3.95, precisely the amount required for the purchase I wanted. Fortunate, yes: Significant, no. Your experience would have been even more precise had you had precisely the amount required for the car, without the $10 left over. Sooner or later such things happen! I recall you claiming a psychic hit by visualising a red snake and being told the subject had an illustration of a red-headed Rainbow Serpent. Later, when the subject stated she had two objects which would more or less match your vision, you claimed a double strike (although having only "seen" one of two, your result, if anything, would be halved)!? Had I been the subject, I too would have to admit to some sort of match as Red-bellied Black Snakes are fairly common around here and we have even had a couple in the house. These unremarkable cases are in the realm of Cold Readings, where hits tend to be remembered and misses tend to be disregarded.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Sept 24, 2008 20:17:20 GMT
> Your experience would have been even more precise had you had precisely the amount
Too true. Although personally I was reasonably pleased to have enough left over for some petrol
I recall a friend who dreamed some numbers and bet on them in a lottery.
He won a modest prize and told me that it was not big enough to indicate that there was any significance to dreaming the numbers.
I suppose we must all choose to what to pay attention
In his case there were no more such dreams so that proves his point.
Or perhaps the source of dreams gave up on him.
|
|
|
Post by maat on Sept 24, 2008 23:38:23 GMT
I recall you claiming a psychic hit by visualising a red snake and being told the subject had an illustration of a red-headed Rainbow Serpent. Later, when the subject stated she had two objects which would more or less match your vision, you claimed a double strike (although having only "seen" one of two, your result, if anything, would be halved)!? Had I been the subject, I too would have to admit to some sort of match as Red-bellied Black Snakes are fairly common around here and we have even had a couple in the house. These unremarkable cases are in the realm of Cold Readings, where hits tend to be remembered and misses tend to be disregarded. ;D ;D ;D I am just loving the opportunity to run this story past our readers again. The newer members might quite enjoy it. Some years ago when Russell and I were not so well acquainted with each other, he posted that he saw me as a crowned serpent or some such. He went on to tell me he saw a red headed serpent looking at me as he posted. I was not too pleased about having someone be able to look at me from a distance for a start. The fact that he could see me and red snakes was most unnerving (I thought I was more the angelic type with attitude, granted). Then I did a search on crowned serpents and came up with some really frightening basilisk stuff! I consoled myself with with the thought that Russell was probably a bit of a dingbat and not to take it seriously. As I was thinking all this I put my hands behind my head and leaned back in my chair - only to be confronted by a limited edition print I had bought called "the Awakening". The central motif is a rainbow serpent, the colours changing along the winding body but the head was red. I nearly fell off the chair, and it frightened me no little bit, I can tell you. It was only some weeks later, when I was looking at my pinboard on the opposite wall, that I noticed a postcard of the same painting I had pinned there - the red headed snake was looking at me from each side of my head. Russell, has talent folks! So much for the red bellied black Tamrin. If you are interested in double checking on the painting, you might try the Hollow Bones Art Circle (08) 8234 6104. It is a most beautiful painting and I am certain you would really like it. Cheers Maat
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Sept 25, 2008 9:19:45 GMT
Somewhat different to my recollection of the earlier telling. Still, I suppose any good yarn improves with age.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Sept 25, 2008 10:48:41 GMT
Tamrin ,
pray tell why your Yarn is good and others are not. ? Sarcasm does not improve with age.
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Sept 25, 2008 11:00:41 GMT
I had thought mine was a relatively gentle comment. Indeed, knowing Maat's aversion to it, I had thought better of yet another instance of showing the Egyptian "apron" as a reminder of Russell's power of observation and credibility, or lack thereof. The difference in yarns was in my recollection of the earlier telling which differs from the version Maat has now related. As I recall, it was a red snake, rather than just a red headed snake which Russell was said to have "seen." Albeit, Maat appeared to slip once in the retelling, reverting to "red snakes" (although plural): The fact that he could see me and red snakes was most unnerving The closest match being Maat's Rainbow Serpent, having a red head among it other colours. Later Maat reported there was another object which might also fit (showing how common such matches can be when some licence is permitted). In response, Russell claimed a double hit, or words to that effect. Maat's latest telling seems to have bundled it all together and to have rounded off the discrepancies: Her prerogative.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Sept 25, 2008 12:00:09 GMT
>These unremarkable cases are in the realm of Cold Readings, where hits tend to be remembered and misses tend to be disregarded.
Philip
Perhaps you might like to demonstrate the ease of cold reading.
Would you like to pick a target or have a volunteer?
|
|