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Post by paulh on Feb 3, 2009 10:13:03 GMT
When our physical body ceases to function and somebody buries or burns it. What happens to the mind. The mind of course functions independently of the body as has been demonstrated by the continuous coherent mental process of some of those who have been resuscitated Beethoven's 3rd symphony gives a useful account of consciousness through the death process It may be that some experiences are not mental but occur in different chakras And wisdom may not be so much a mental function as a heart function. In principle it is possible to extract the essence of all past experiences and bring that into present time beingness - but I have yet to see an incarnate human in which that has fully occurred. I would have thought that most of what passes for education (educare - to draw out from within) is actually input of training to think in repetitive and communally acceptable patterns. I seem to recall a Jesuit proposition: Give us the child of 7 and we will give you the man. That would seem to suggest training is effective for at least one lifetime. Skills are not necessarily embodied in the brain or even embodied all the time. For example, an apprentice eventually "gets the hang" of quite a lot without specific instruction. Further, beginner's luck is notorious, suggesting some unearned and temporary acquisition of skill I recall a friend who at one time remembered a past life and immediately reacquired the technical skills of that time. Were those skills in his brain from birth? In the case of Mozart the complexity of the writing and without drafts may indicate the assistance of a specialised familiar spirit. Similarly for HPB - in that case an exceptionally ugly looking spirit - I saw it once. It is indeed a far reaching question and cannot be answered until identification of the various intelligences anchored in a particular brain. As for the enslaver being the higher self, do your observations of this forum support that hypothesis? Cheers |
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Post by whistler on Feb 3, 2009 20:13:30 GMT
As for the enslaver being the higher self, do your observations of this forum support that hypothesis?
Yes that is my conclusion based on my thinking on the way things work. Within myself is the Creator - there is nothing higher Take a simple Flea - It knows from birth (Hatching  it knows how to jump, what to eat, what not to eat, the best place to lay eggs, when to hatch etc. This wee beast is probably about .06 of an inch. Where is all that knowledge kept - in a tiny brain - a tiny mind. How is that Knowledge passed on to generations of fleas. Perhaps that information is passed on by external means and the physical - brain - sperms and eggs just receivers for that information
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Post by paulh on Feb 3, 2009 20:21:43 GMT
Yes that is my conclusion based on my thinking on the way things work.
The difficulty of course is asking the mind to assess itself. The mind may be biased about itself - a subset of the well known human ability for self deception |
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Post by paulh on Feb 3, 2009 20:23:25 GMT
Take a simple Flea - .... Where is all that knowledge kept - in a tiny brain - a tiny mind. How do you know that? I have never detected a mental chakra attached to a flea so I don't know how mind (in the human sense) could influence one. |
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Post by whistler on Feb 3, 2009 23:00:52 GMT
Take a simple Flea - .... Where is all that knowledge kept - in a tiny brain - a tiny mind. How do you know that? I have never detected a mental chakra attached to a flea so I don't know how mind (in the human sense) could influence one. It is in exploring the possibilities and potentials that lets us wonder and speculate - Forget all the worthy books you may have read and ask yourself the most likely way the Flea does all those things - and follow your on conclusions it is worthwhile seeing where you end up  |
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Post by paulh on Feb 4, 2009 0:01:44 GMT
Those who chose the blue pill will have different views about "most likely" compared with those who chose the red pill
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Post by maximus on Feb 4, 2009 0:16:57 GMT
Those who chose the blue pill will have different views about "most likely" compared with those who chose the red pill ARGUMENT FROM "THE MATRIX" (1) We cannot prove that we don't live in a Matrix-like world. (2) Therefore we cannot know reality. (3) If reality is contingent, then everything is possible. (4) Therefore, nothing really exists.  |
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 0:25:28 GMT
As for the enslaver being the higher self, do your observations of this forum support that hypothesis?
Yes that is my conclusion based on my thinking on the way things work. Within myself is the Creator - there is nothing higher There are several reasons why I can't agree with you here Whistler. If the Higher Self was the enslaver - you would be good, all the time, everywhere. Now I don't know about you but... The Creator, we are told, created us and gave us the greatest of all gifts, that of Free Will. If this is true then creator would not take away our free will by enslaving us. I do agree with you that the Creator is within and the Higher Self (Superconsciousness) is probably 'very closely' related. And I also believe that when we do entertain ungodly thoughts it is up to us 'to choose' what we do next.. listen to our IN-tuitor or to our self. From personal experience I can tell you that some thoughts that come to my mind are definitely 'foreign', meaning totally outside the realms of my personality and decidedly negative  We have all probably read a newspaper story or two about people who have murdered upon instructions from their mind  (Please note my foreign negativety is not that extreme ;D) We could also keep in mind here the 'prophets/seers' whom 'God' told to annihilate whole towns, cities, every man, woman and child. Were their minds enslaved and if so does it sound like the God we are familiar with? Just thoughts Maat |
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 0:28:20 GMT
For what it is worth, my unconscious mind is much smarter and wiser than my conscious mind. My dream life is most instructive. It gives me answers and leads me to ponder more questions.
So, whoever is in there, I love you.
..and thanks.
Maat
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Post by whistler on Feb 4, 2009 1:33:25 GMT
Hi Maat If the Higher Self was the enslaver - you would be good, all the time, everywhere. Now I don't know about you but... As soon as you say Good, or bad - you are entering into judgment It is better to seek to understand the result of an action. If you mission in this life is to give a lesson in tolerance to your sister, your behaviour towards her may be considered as "bad" by her in this lifetime, but was exactly what you both agreed to before you were born this time so the bad was good  |
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Post by maximus on Feb 4, 2009 2:03:32 GMT
. So, whoever is in there, I love you. ..and thanks. Maat, dear, you are the only one in there. |
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Post by maximus on Feb 4, 2009 2:07:31 GMT
Lets see if this makes any sense to you folks:
Consciousness is the faculty of awareness—the faculty of perceiving that which exists.
Awareness is not a passive state, but an active process. On the lower levels of awareness, a complex neurological process is required to enable man to experience a sensation and to integrate sensations into percepts; that process is automatic and non-volitional: man is aware of its results, but not of the process itself. On the higher, conceptual level, the process is psychological, conscious and volitional. In either case, awareness is achieved and maintained by continuous action.
Directly or indirectly, every phenomenon of consciousness is derived from one’s awareness of the external world. Some object, i.e., some content, is involved in every state of awareness. Extrospection is a process of cognition directed outward—a process of apprehending some existent(s) of the external world. Introspection is a process of cognition directed inward—a process of apprehending one’s own psychological actions in regard to some existent(s) of the external world, such actions as thinking, feeling, reminiscing, etc. It is only in relation to the external world that the various actions of a consciousness can be experienced, grasped, defined or communicated. Awareness is awareness of something. A content-less state of consciousness is a contradiction in terms.
Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology, 37.
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Post by paulh on Feb 4, 2009 3:03:10 GMT
Directly or indirectly, every phenomenon of consciousness is derived from one’s awareness of the external world. I assume that is an article of faith not requiring testing |
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 4:22:48 GMT
Hi Maat If the Higher Self was the enslaver - you would be good, all the time, everywhere. Now I don't know about you but... As soon as you say Good, or bad - you are entering into judgment It is better to seek to understand the result of an action. If you mission in this life is to give a lesson in tolerance to your sister, your behaviour towards her may be considered as "bad" by her in this lifetime, but was exactly what you both agreed to before you were born this time so the bad was good ;D Was reading about the operation of the chakras just the other night and how you can tell which one needs some cultivation by what ails you. Took no interest until I run some rellies and friends through the test... it all fit. I sometimes suffer with sinus problems ... apparently this is related to being judgemental.... Me? Never!! ;D ;D ;D I'm working on improving ... two hours ago my parked car was side swiped by a truck. A very nice driver did apologise... life is good other people have worse to suffer but how the heck am I going to get home  Now - I can understand where you are coming from with that type of thinking, but how does someone like Hitler fit into the scheme of things? He is blameless, just an innocent tool? Maat |
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 4:28:54 GMT
I think I understood what you said Max ... but I still reckon we come into this life already programmed with the experience of previous lives.
When man acts animalistically maybe he is relatively new to the human experience.
Maat
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Post by maat on Feb 4, 2009 4:30:24 GMT
. So, whoever is in there, I love you. ..and thanks. Maat, dear, you are the only one in there. i am that I AM  |
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Post by maximus on Feb 4, 2009 4:40:44 GMT
Directly or indirectly, every phenomenon of consciousness is derived from one’s awareness of the external world. I assume that is an article of faith not requiring testing You know what they say about "ass-u-me." |
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Post by paulh on Feb 4, 2009 5:01:38 GMT
Let me rephrase that.
Is the proposition "Directly or indirectly, every phenomenon of consciousness is derived from one’s awareness of the external world " intended to be accepted without testing?
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Post by whistler on Feb 4, 2009 7:59:37 GMT
Hi Maat - I am off to Melbourne for the weekend - you might guess why Re Now - I can understand where you are coming from with that type of thinking, but how does someone like Hitler fit into the scheme of things? He is blameless, just an innocent tool?
No I don't think he was an innocent tool - I am quite happy that He was on the earth plain at that time and behaved in the way he did for a reason that was decided before he was born |
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Post by maximus on Feb 4, 2009 14:45:13 GMT
Hi Maat - I am off to Melbourne for the weekend - you might guess why Re Now - I can understand where you are coming from with that type of thinking, but how does someone like Hitler fit into the scheme of things? He is blameless, just an innocent tool?
No I don't think he was an innocent tool - I am quite happy that He was on the earth plain at that time and behaved in the way he did for a reason that was decided before he was born Hitler made a conscious, volitional choice to act as he did. No need to ascribe his actions to some grand scheme dreamed up by an imaginary sky-fairy. Bad things happen, often randomly. That is the way of existance. |
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it knows how to jump, what to eat, what not to eat, the best place to lay eggs, when to hatch etc. This wee beast is probably about .06 of an inch.
(Please note my foreign negativety is not that extreme ;D) We could also keep in mind here the 'prophets/seers' whom 'God' told to annihilate whole towns, cities, every man, woman and child. Were their minds enslaved and if so does it sound like the God we are familiar with?
