Crop circles and other puzzles

[maat]

How about 'Apaches' being involved in machine made circles.... an interesting read, especially the commentary at the end - science bods take note.

www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/apache/

Maat

[hollandr]

Thats an interesting account and suggests yet another source for circles. Certainly the heating/drying of the ground has been commonly detected elsewhere

But the "circle" produced does not seem to add to human culture - unlike, for example, the circles containing new geometric theorems

So perhaps we have an example of technology transfer in which the recipients like to try their hand at imitation

Cheers

Russell

[Tamrin]

hollandr said:

But the "circle" produced does not seem to add to human culture - unlike, for example, the circles containing new geometric theorems

Can you provide instances of significant new geometric theorems being first illustrated by crop circles?

[hollandr]

www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030628/mathtrek.asp

[Antonius]

again i have to say that even if these things are manmade, we are still hard pressed to explain them.

why would people do something like this?
this doesnt fit the mo of any kind of person u might suspect of doing things like this.
i mean artists who care not for recognition?
math geeks who make such slow progress in the complexification of their designs?
UFO geeks who avoid attention?
i cant think of anything that makes any kind of logical sense, and so whatever the story behind this may be, aliens or humans, its likely to be an interesting one.

and wether the finger be pink or grey, it seems to be pointing at conciousness.
i feel that whoever is doing this is performing a kind of alchemical performance art, and the
objective of it all is to get people like us to do the stuff we are doing here for the sake of
challanging our paradigms and expand our thinking by forcing us to contemplate the mystery of it.

some of the things that make me feel this way are something Jung said about UFO's;
that if we look not at what they are and where they come from, but rather what they do
and what effect they have on us then it becomes clear why they are here: to contradict
our beliefs about science and religion and force us to look for new answers.
that and i been listening to a Manly P. Hall lecture discussing morals and dogma where
Hall talks about how in masonry the symbols function as an unknown and the contemplating of that unknown is what causes people to expand their conciousness.
its the search within ourself for meaning that is the essence of spiritual work.

[Tamrin]

I suggest Hawkins was putting the cart before the horse. Just as music can be described mathematically, any squiggle may be likewise described (as a theorem, if you like). Moreover, geometry has long since exceeded that of Euclid's propositions. For example, consider the Mandelbrot, which subsequently appeared among Crop Circles. There appears to be nothing new of any significance in crop circles which one cannot find in the graphic arts: On paper they would be of little interest.

[hollandr]

>There appears to be nothing new of any significance in crop circles which one cannot find in the graphic arts:

I must admit to having missed the new geometric theorems in the graphic arts.

In practice the geometry of many "circles" is quite complex and more advanced than anything that was taught in undergraduate geometry when I studied it.

>any squiggle may be likewise described (as a theorem, if you like).

I don't recall any exercises set to derive theorems from squiggles.

>On paper they would be of little interest

Sometimes the value of science is hard to estimate for a few decades.

I think the difficulty here is that if there is new information or concepts in the crop circles (and that is clear in some) humans have yet to figure out how to apply it

[Tamrin]

hollandr said:

I must admit to having missed the new geometric theorems in the graphic arts.

Exactly! For example, anyone can overlap a square and a circle but in doing so they have not established the theorem of "squaring the circle." A mathematically inclined person may however infer the possibilty from the illustration.

[Antonius]

do you guys realise that no1 has yet made a single comment that is actualy
relevant to the subject and intention of this thread?

also whats the point of going round and round with this banal minutia when there is a
real mystery to contemplate?

[Tamrin]

antonius said:

do you guys realise that no1 has yet made a single comment that is actualy
relevant to the subject and intention of this thread?

also whats the point of going round and round with this banal minutia when there is a
real mystery to contemplate?

Please clearly and succinctly state your intention.

[Tamrin]

antonius said:

why would people do something like this?
this doesnt fit the mo of any kind of person u might suspect of doing things like this.
i mean artists who care not for recognition?
math geeks who make such slow progress in the complexification of their designs?
UFO geeks who avoid attention?
i cant think of anything that makes any kind of logical sense, and so whatever the story behind this may be, aliens or humans, its likely to be an interesting one.

I would not be too troubled about WHY these crop circles are created, clearly many people are not governed by the sort of motivational logic you are trying to invoke. For example, the recently deceased Sir Edmund Hillary (together with Tenzing Norgay) climbed Mt. Everest, "because it was there." As a further example, the Internet is replete with creative but anonymous artworks.

[windtimber]

maat said:

Windtimber, came across a Crop Circle book where they had lots of info on the US circles. Many, many more than I expected and some were in snow. Will do some homework and get a little list going for you. The book is 'old' now published in 1999 from memory, but it will be something for you to follow up on if you are interested.

Maat

Thank you very much. Have to say that I'm most partial to the "blokes with boards" explanation of things...but one never knows.......

[hollandr]

>I'm most partial to the "blokes with boards" explanation of things

Some people find the plant and seed abnormalities interesting. "There are four basic changes to the seeds and germination capability in crop circle plants documented so far."

www.bltresearch.com/plantab.html

Perhaps the choice of wood used for the planks is important

cheers

Russell

[hollandr]

I rather like this one

ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/crop0108.jpg

Anyone who can make that in the dark with a plank has my admiration

And I suggest that their talents might be more profitable if they charged the public to watch

[Tamrin]

Truly, human ingenuity is remarkable!

[Antonius]

Please clearly and succinctly state your intention.

have you read the opening post dude?
there are some seriously myterious notions in there wich have barely been commented
on at all.
since this cropcircle thing doesnt seem to be going anywhere i thought we might adress
some of the other things i mentioned.

For example, the recently deceased Sir Edmund Hillary (together with Tenzing Norgay) climbed Mt. Everest, "because it was there."

that can be quite simply explained by western culture's obsessive need to submit and dominate everyting it sees.

theres something very different going on with these cropcircles.
even reduced to its most mundane possible expression, it is still a rather extraordinary
form of art.

again, to me this points to some kind of urge to keep people guessing, and looking at the sheer scope of the phenomenon, i think it might be worthwile to ask the question:
why does our culture produce such a subculture?

"if there were no god we would have created one."
-Voltaire.

are we reacting to a subconcious need for something?

[Tamrin]

antonius said:

Please clearly and succinctly state your intention.

have you read the opening post dude?

Please do not call me "dude."

Yes, I have read your opening post: Your intention therein is neither clear nor succinct.

[hollandr]

Antonius

As I have said elsewhere there may be several sources of crop circles and they may usefully be distinguished by:

- the quality of execution (based on technology I assume)
- the degree of spiritual and psychological change induced by the design (and this can change from positive to negative over a few days)
- and possibly by the type of electronic malfunction occurring with cameras etc taken into the circle - not to mention mind malfunction inside the circle

But I do not know of anyone making such an analysis so the circles are jumbled together in people's minds as a single phenomenon

Cheers

Russell

[Antonius]

do i realy have to point this out?

theres a giant cropcircle with mathmatical codes in it that
point to a number associated with the rosswell crash aswell as key lattitudes on earth
and hyperdimentional physics (wich i presume to mean torsion fields and stuff like that).
another guy finds codes in the landscape of mars wich point him to that same number.
and then theres the fact that the landscape of avery mirros the landscape on cydonia
perfectly.
moreover some of this stuff seems to point at a place on earth caled Sidon wich im pretty
sure is AKA Tyre AKA home of king Hiram.

surely we can make this a more interesting conversation then: 'cropcircles are real vs crop circles are fake'?

[Tamrin]

Ummm.... You still have not stated what your intention was.

If it was to simply discuss correspondences, apparently drawn by aluminium foil wearing types , without testing their "evidence," then count me out.

BTW, Sidon is about 40 km (25 miles) north of Tyre (about half way between Tyre and Beirut).