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Post by terrible on Aug 19, 2009 13:53:15 GMT
Here is part of a post from a legal blog that was recently shared with me, written by a lawyer and consultant, Matthew Homann described as a "visionary" and who is aware of current technology as well as future social trends. This post is about the way young people interact, meet, and make friendships. The point is that most "movers-and-shakers" in various disciplines--including Freemasonry--are all online. Compare the above points with comments made during the past few weeks here at MFOL regarding how we interact with one another on the web: Does anyone here at MFOL feel that by ignoring current trends now occurring on the internet that they will be "left behind" by the younger generation? For those of us not part of the "younger generation", are we being "left behind" currently because of our obsolete thinking? Do you think that Masonic leadership needs to take note of technology?
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Post by wisseman on Aug 19, 2009 15:19:01 GMT
Curious. I'm a 40 something who is just now spreading my wings Masonically in cyberspace. I don't really use myspace, facebook, etc. It seems to me though that the universality of Masonry is found much faster. Our views of Freemasonry are found only locally. Our local paper won't have articles about Freemasonry in Alabama or around the world. The net though makes things very, very fast.
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 19, 2009 17:57:03 GMT
As one of the dissenters against "Social Media" quoted but not attributed on your thread I will state my case.
My default means of comunication these days is by e-mail or on Fora such as this. In bygone times I typed letters as the medium of choice, (I don't write as my handwriting is terrible, even I find it hard to decypher). Then came that great boon, the fax machine. I then had the best of both worlds. I could state my case in writing but had the speed of a phone call. I still have two now unused fax machines in my home. Then came e-mail which was even better, the speed of a fax but still with the case stated, hard copy available advantages of typed words but all the speed of electronic communication. I do have a phone both landline and mobile (cellphone) but I only use these for purely social calls to people I like or for pure emergency calls when speed and an instant response is essential. Even then I will use the Text (SMS) function on my mobile rather than voice. It goes without saying that my phone numbers are ex-directory (Unlisted) and I have registered with Telephone Preference in order to block cold calling and junk phone calls from businesses etc trying to sell things I do not want. By now you will have gathered that I do NOT like using the phone unless I have no other option and tend to conduct most of my affairs by e-mail.
Accordingly, the likes of Facebook, Bebo, You Tube, Linkedin, etc are anathema to me and I want absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with them. I am also very cautious about them as I have read too many tales of people getting trouble they did not bargain for at the hands of so-called friends or posting something which has even cost them their employment. MS Communicator is just about acceptable to me but I even find that a bit intrusive and too immediate compared to the "buffering" of an e-mail.
I can see absolutely no advantage to myself in subscribing to Facebook etc as I do not run a business but am an ordinary employee in a workshop and not involved in any customer facing activity, sales or marketing.
So as far as Social Media" is concerned it scores a very big ZERO with this particular Widow's Son and I want no part of it.
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Post by terrible on Aug 19, 2009 18:14:11 GMT
As one of the dissenters against "Social Media" quoted but not attributed on your thread I will state my case. no sleight intended, and I of course apologize for not using your name/login for the anonymous quotes. Actually, your specific comment inspired me to post this, as I remembered this earlier blog post. As an aside, although I've used Facebook to promote some other projects, I don't necessarily like to use it for personal networking. I've used another networking site for awhile now (myspace); I enjoy it but like anything else, in moderation.
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Post by penfold on Aug 19, 2009 21:07:59 GMT
Does anyone here at MFOL feel that by ignoring current trends now occurring on the internet that they will be "left behind" by the younger generation? For those of us not part of the "younger generation", are we being "left behind" currently because of our obsolete thinking? Do you think that Masonic leadership needs to take note of technology? I don't - email hasn't been supplanted by f/book or twitter, and it never will be, and I speak as someone who is active on fb, twitter, linkedin, etc People who believe that technology splits on generational levels is so wrong it's not true - technology use is universal across all age groups And what exactly do you mean by 'masonic leadership'? None of the forums are operated by a grand lodge or masonic body, yet they do use websites, email, etc. To turn it around - what are your expectations of the 'masonic leadership' (not that there is just 'one' but ya know what I mean, innit?)
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Post by terrible on Aug 19, 2009 22:01:37 GMT
And what exactly do you mean by 'masonic leadership'? None of the forums are operated by a grand lodge or masonic body, yet they do use websites, email, etc. To turn it around - what are your expectations of the 'masonic leadership' (not that there is just 'one' but ya know what I mean, innit?) I'm unsure if there can be an exact or "precise" definition of what 'masonic leadership' is. I'm a member of a Grand Lodge, so for me it that would be the individuals lined up line elephants with their nose...you get the picture and it ain't pretty. Some Grand Lodges are progressive, some are not! ;D Of course, I'm sure there are bodies of masonry wherein some other type of structure could exist. I'm more aiming at a perceived generation/technology gap that may or may not be dividing the Craft, depending on where one lives as well as one's point of view. Some of this obviously goes beyond the questions I'm exploring in this thread. However, by looking at emasonry as being driven trends that also exist outside the Craft, I'm hoping to possibly identify how Freemasonry could possibly benefit from what's happening elsewhere in the world and on the web. Therefore, I'm taking various comments by brethren on this board as a point of departure and am trying to get a feel for how people here view the "state of the art" of "social networking" as well as how they identify with that within the context of the various communities that we emasons have created and in which we participate. My expectations of Masonic leadership... ;D what a loaded question. Can I abstain from that? No? Ok, here goes, and I hope I don't offend anyone. The GM of the GL I belong to has gone on record stating that he feels as if the Craft should be going back to its roots and having a lot of fish fry breakfasts. I kid you not. I love fish, I love fish fries, and I probably don't mind a fish fry breakfast with my Brothers, but I tell you that's not why I became a Mason. However, to illustrate this point a little differently, consider the following: In a quite recent Northern Light magazine (publication of the AASR NMJ), they were just getting around to a review of Josh Heller and Gerald Reilly's The Lodge that Never Sleeps (2006)! When reading the above I was sadly struck by the fact that the landscape of emasonry has greatly changed since 2006, and given the last portion of text I've highlighted...I'm unsure how emasonry is being perceived by the masonic leadership. I was also struck that this reviewer has probably never been on a single masonic forum, and although he probably has years in the Craft, his review of a 3-year-old book about the internet (whose technology changes on a constant basis) seemed a little quaint and out of touch regarding the topic. I mean...considering the uncertainty regarding the web I encounter in Lodge from some of the Brethren, a statement like that last sentence is hardly an endorsement and simply reinforces a pre-existing negative stereotype, rather than fostering understanding. I know that many masons come to the web for the educational resources that have recently been developed, not because what's being offered is so much better than exists in the analog world, but simply because there is a perception that the Grand Lodges have dropped the ball when it comes to knowing what young masons want/need, and offering something along those lines. My expectations of Masonic Leadership, therefore, have to do with them somewhat 'getting it' at a time when bodies such as the NMJ think that offering the degree work on DVDs will help the Craft to move forward. However, this is simply one view. I've heard that there are online enclaves of Grand Line officers that congregate in their own private Facebook clans, contemplating how they will use Twister to rule the universe, or at least the internet.
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Post by middlepillar on Aug 19, 2009 22:45:02 GMT
Thankyou for posting a very interesting topic which I believe should lead to some very interesting discussion! I am looking forward to seeing how this topic develops.
There are a few comments I would like to make;
e-masonry is not confined to the newer mason! One of my best friends is 84 and regularly uses the internet and researches all sorts, he has just celebrated 60 years in masonry.
It cannot be denied (those that do remind me of the proverbial ostrich) that the internet has drastically changed Freemasonry. There are very few (if any) secrets anymore (I use the term freely) smaller orders are being discovered almost daily, whilst the more traditional orders are being so well documented you can practically take the degree in your front room!
I offer no opinion whether this is good or bad, it just is! I do believe however no matter how much you read (either on Forums, in general on the internet or even by book) there will never be a replacement for experience.
This is where I believe the Internet is at its most dangerous. people can read about all sorts of things and suddenly they believe they know all there is to know about something. You cannot replace practical experience.
Just a few thoughts! I hope you find some relevant to your fine question/topic.
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Post by maat on Aug 20, 2009 0:28:42 GMT
Interesting topic. Especially for me - I am 64, not an idiot, despite the fact that I have no idea what people are talking about these days when they are talking about their latest electronic equipment - and - (looking back over both shoulders and leaning forward to whisper in your ear) I have no idea how to send a text message of a mobile phone. I guess I would learn if I bought one. I do not like facebook - too intrusive and who is collecting all that information? However e-masonry I love. E-masonic friends I treasure. E-education in all areas, even the crappy stuff, is and enlightenment tool. Artificial barriers are dissolved. No longer are we restricted to four walls and, oftentimes, overbearing, undereducated people in positions of control. My stated mission when I first became an e-mason five years ago, was purely to get male masons used to the idea to of discussing masonic subjects with a woman. Mission achieved ;D Sorry if I went overboard ;D What I did not anticipate was the extent to which I would become better educated and more worldy wise!!! And everything I learn I take back to my lodge and share with the Brn there. Despite outer restrictions/recognition in our hearts our lodge works with all masons everywhere, even those who have not been ceremonially initiated Love is in the air (broadband) ... Maat
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Post by terrible on Aug 20, 2009 12:36:07 GMT
e-masonry is not confined to the newer mason! One of my best friends is 84 and regularly uses the internet and researches all sorts, he has just celebrated 60 years in masonry. This is where I believe the Internet is at its most dangerous. people can read about all sorts of things and suddenly they believe they know all there is to know about something. You cannot replace practical experience. I know a few elder Brethren that utilize computers and the web, yet they are not 'emasons'. Their interactions with other masons seem confined to email communication. Maybe there are different levels of emasonry! The second point I highlighted is really a different topic, but related to this one. However, it does bring to mind something I left out above, which is the masonic blogosphere that allows one to publish one's works, whether they be mere thoughts, rants and ramblings to more formally developed pieces, such as essays and articles, along with the ability of the audience to comment and interact with the author. When I first became a mason, which was a few years ago, the masonic blogosphere was a lively place where various personages used the technology to publicly stage heated battles. It was ugly and embarrassing to witness--at least, it was for me. I've noticed a recent change over the past year regarding blogs: many of the blog authors haven't been as active. Also, Bro. Stewart over on freemasoninformation.com has created a site that incorporates several different blog authors on a single site. TSS's " Pillars of the Portico" also features different authors although the format of their content is a little more varied, mixing nicely-written articles with poetry, postcards, music, and more. However, some of the blogs that have been out there for awhile, such as the ones authored by Bro. Chris Hodapp, continue to provide a variety of material. Anyway, there are many different options and flavors available. However e-masonry I love. E-masonic friends I treasure. E-education in all areas, even the crappy stuff, is and enlightenment tool. Artificial barriers are dissolved. No longer are we restricted to four walls and, oftentimes, overbearing, undereducated people in positions of control. My stated mission when I first became an e-mason five years ago, was purely to get male masons used to the idea to of discussing masonic subjects with a woman. Mission achieved ;D Sorry if I went overboard ;D What I did not anticipate was the extent to which I would become better educated and more worldy wise!!! And everything I learn I take back to my lodge and share with the Brn there. For me, it was simply to meet other Freemasons on the web, and to learn about masonry. Since I've been successful at both goals, I've enlarged the scope, and view the various fora as virtual "quarries" where masons gather to perform different types of work. Some push stones, while others like to watch. I enjoy meeting those that are able to utilize developing technology to create platforms from which we can explore the varied history of the Craft in all of its various forms, as well as to explore, create, and build new structures here in cyberspace that we can use as resources to educate the Brethren back in the Lodge. I think if we lose our connection to whence we came, we'll be unsure of whither we are traveling (or why).
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Post by magusmasonica on Aug 20, 2009 18:03:23 GMT
Web 2.0 is where the entire world is going, not just Freemasonry. I am a big advocate for using the latest technology as a set of modern working tools. One of the main reasons behind LNB was to create a lodge for all seekers regardless of race, gender, religion, affiliation and geography. The later of which had never been done before, at least to my knowledge. I can't type the words of excitment and fulfillment I get from engaging in a Lodge of Instruction over Skype with lodge Brothers on every continent. How exciting Of course the internet has it's disadvantages. No matter what you don't get the tactile responce you get in person. That is why I feel that ritual must be done the "old fashioned way" but everything else can be aided along using the latest technology. I am going to defend Facebook for a min. I think there is an impression on here that if you use Facebook that you have to use quiz apps, play games etc. The fact is you don't. You can control who you talk to and for me this helps because in my situation flamers are an everyday reality for me. It is so nice to take a break from all of that. The eMasonry forums and blogosphere are to me a mixed bag at best. They used to be all that was avalible so all of the drama that comes with them. I cannot express how much stress that has put on my life, it is much quiter now but can still be pretty bad should I venture into the "wrong places." At the end of the day I have met some great friends and have doors opened to me that would have been closed otherwise. For that I am very greatful.
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Post by terrible on Aug 20, 2009 18:42:08 GMT
I can't type the words of excitment and fulfillment I get from engaging in a Lodge of Instruction over Skype with lodge Brothers on every continent. How exciting I am going to defend Facebook for a min. I think there is an impression on here that if you use Facebook that you have to use quiz apps, play games etc. The fact is you don't. You can control who you talk to... Will you please write a little more about Skype for those of us that are a little unfamiliar with it; what are its advantages/disadvantages, do you like it, etc. I've heard of it but that's about it. Seems as though it's combining a few different things so that one has the best of a few different technologies, right? Thanks also for giving a little more positive info regarding Facebook.
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Post by magusmasonica on Aug 20, 2009 20:11:01 GMT
I can't type the words of excitment and fulfillment I get from engaging in a Lodge of Instruction over Skype with lodge Brothers on every continent. How exciting I am going to defend Facebook for a min. I think there is an impression on here that if you use Facebook that you have to use quiz apps, play games etc. The fact is you don't. You can control who you talk to... Will you please write a little more about Skype for those of us that are a little unfamiliar with it; what are its advantages/disadvantages, do you like it, etc. I've heard of it but that's about it. Seems as though it's combining a few different things so that one has the best of a few different technologies, right? Thanks also for giving a little more positive info regarding Facebook. No problem. Skype to me is the best thing since the invention of the affordable laptop ;D Skype is a robust and stable IM, as well as a VOIP communication and broadcasting tool. Skype allows it's users to call over VOIP all around the world for free. You can also do a video call using a webcam. For small monthly fees you can call any landline. It also have a bunch of other applications from a call recorder that conversts calls to MP3 for broadcast. It also has an application that allows for group meetings and desktop sharing ala WebEx or Windows Live Meeting. It's awesome. Skype is really the life tool of our day to day lodge. Love and Light,
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Post by penfold on Aug 20, 2009 20:19:28 GMT
Frere, without wishing to sound critical it does sound to me as tho your experience is fairly limited to your own jurisdiction and national borders. Having been active in e-masonry since before I was a mason I can tell you without doubt that it has broken down national and jurisdictional borders for me, leading to some great visits in different countries, including the USA.
What is important to realise is that most e-masonry is due to the efforts of individuals, before appx 2000/2001 a search engine search for freemasonry would have shown the first couple of pages of results populated with the anti freemasonry message. Thanks to the efforts of individual masons, not the governing bodies, those results pages now bring you the real face of freemasonry
Ultimately technology is an enabler - a way of doing what you already do differently or more effeciently, web 2 is simply an extension of that
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Post by terrible on Aug 20, 2009 22:17:00 GMT
Frere, without wishing to sound critical it does sound to me as tho your experience is fairly limited to your own jurisdiction and national borders. For an old coot I still manage to get around a little bit.
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Post by maat on Aug 20, 2009 23:38:07 GMT
On you Cooter Scooter no doubt ;D
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Post by JulesTheBit on Aug 21, 2009 8:46:27 GMT
... Does anyone here at MFOL feel that by ignoring current trends now occurring on the internet that they will be "left behind" by the younger generation? For those of us not part of the "younger generation", are we being "left behind" currently because of our obsolete thinking? Do you think that Masonic leadership needs to take note of technology? Morning all I think that by posing that question, and the previous comments and quotes on this forum there's a certain amount of preaching to the converted. However, for my own part I think that to answer the last questiuon we have to consider the circumstances in which Freemasonry operates and the attitudes and preferences of its members and potential members. Technology is a very important aspect of how we communicate. 80-90 years ago UGLE freemasonry was a leader in technology. Freemasons Hall, Gt Queen St is a memorial, but it was also one of the most high-tech buildings of its time. It was one of the first UK buildings to use a steel frame construction, it had telephones and its own PBX, air conditioning and lifts. And a centralised vacuum cleaning system, all very high-tech for the time. Going back still further we had a close association with the Royal Society, and some of the greatest scientists and thinkers of their day. In the 90s, however, the obvious advantages of email and the net in general were very slowly adopted by UGLE and the Provinces. We wasted a lot of money on postage, and have only just got around to doing something about it on the grand scale. Some very senior officers had no email facility. I wonder if Masonic use of telephones was resisted in the same way back in the 20s and 30s? Technology take-up is improving though. As I said in an earlier post, I am secretary of several Lodges, one of them in the UGLE University Scheme set up by the AsstGM of UGLE. It's clear from the Uni Lodges, and the exponential expansion of the Uni scheme, that we have reached the stage where Lodges consisting mostly of young members will use new technology whether that use is encouraged from above or not. It should be obvious that will happen, it's the way these young people conduct the administration of their personal lives and they are not going to learn how to use 1950s technology and process in order to be active Freemasons. I think that as the net gets easier to use, particularly for social networking which leads online communication technology, so older people and even technophobes will begin to see the advantages, and embrace them. The adoption will come, but because of the disproportionately high age of Freemasons at the moment the take-up is slow in our Fraternity. If you'd like to see the kind of Masonic sites and communication preferred by some of these younger chaps take a look at www.21stcenturyfreemason.com/ which is quite newly created by 20-somethings. See you on Skype, Facebook, Twitter, and various other web 2.0 sites S&F, Jules
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 21, 2009 9:35:48 GMT
"I wonder if Masonic use of telephones was resisted in the same way back in the 20s and 30s? "
I don't know about the phone, Bro Jules, but I did read on one Forum that, difficult as it may be to believe these days, there was actually an edict some decades ago now from UGLE to their Lodge Secretaries ordering them not to type Lodge Minutes but hand-write them. I imagine that quite a few Secretaries turned a Nelson Eye to such a ridiculous and old fashioned idea and continued to type the Minutes, a good thing as many people's handwriting is indecipherable, mine certainly is!. I assume this prohibition was quietly dropped at some latter date.
From the great use of the Internet on Masonic Fora such as this and many others, free from any GL control, I cannot see a load of King Canutes in their chains of office and fancy aprons being able to hold back the Cybertide .
Certainly I have learned a lot about Freemasonry from Fora such as this and have made some lasting friendships, and it has to be said, a few enemies too. It was via the Internet that I was to discover Co-Freemasonry to which I was to move in December 2006.
Masonic Fora are fine as are Lodge websites, (although I understand the latter require approval from UGLE for their Lodges to have one) but I am still somewhat cautious about the likes of Facebook, Bebo, Linkedin etc.
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reprobatus
Member
Lapis Reprobatus Caput Anguli
Posts: 42
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Post by reprobatus on Aug 21, 2009 12:26:52 GMT
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Post by terrible on Aug 21, 2009 16:46:01 GMT
Reprobatus, thanks for sharing that!
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Post by penfold on Aug 22, 2009 11:55:08 GMT
To be honest, I share some of Lauderdale's scepticism about social media, but take a look at this video on the subject. Some of the statistics are mind-boggling: Lies, damn lies, and statistics...... ;D
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