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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 11, 2010 20:35:50 GMT
Why don't you contact Lodge Hera if you are interested in membership and find out? I am a co founder of Lodge Hera but I am not a current officer. I am not aware of any felons as of yet in any Post-Modern lodge BUT Nelson Mandela does have an open invitation ;D Love and Light, Love and Light, Your not having a felon and welcoming Nelson Mandela is irrelevant. I was seeking to confirm these statements; "If you have read any of our website's, petition's our standards for admission are made very clear." and "Qualifications for admission very from lodge to lodge. As to the lodges that I am a member of it is stated clearly on our websites." If I have to contact them, and you as a member are in the dark, then clearly the statements are falsehoods and erroneous. If a lodge co creator doesn't know, it's difficult to suppose anyone else at the lodge would. Of course I know but I will not speak for them, as it is not my place. With that being said, suppose away Kevin, knock yourself out. I know your game, I smell what you're cookin. I want no part of it. I have determined that my life is much better without Kevin. I will not engage you any further. Godspeed.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 11, 2010 21:28:47 GMT
I agree Brother Leo. I have enjoyed the relative peace and calm that has been around here lately. Back on topic. I am aware of independent lodges in England and Scotland but none yet in Ireland. I will let you know when changes in that situation develop. The number of independents increase every day. I think you exaggerate. Every day would imply that there are independent or "post-modern" lodges forming every single day, in numerous countries all over the world. This seems improbable. Other than your claims, is there any independent corroboration as to this seemingly miraculous phenomena? My Scottish Brethren are unaware of any independent movement in Scotland. That is to assume that all independent lodge are Post-modern. I have never once made that claim. you would be surprised to find just how many independent lodges there are and that are forming. i know I have been. When i went to Europe I didn't have the time to visit a fraction of the independent lodges that are already there. More are forming every day. I get news daily from all over the world on independent lodges. Some adopt the Post-Modern current, many do not. but, myself free of my own opinion support on principle all independent lodges even if i would not be a member. In fact in continental Europe independents are so numerous as to be a majority in many countries. In Africa, South America and Asia no one blinks at the thought of a Freemason from a independent lodge. It is only in the Anglo-influenced areas that it raises any eyebrows. The fact is that independents enjoy many of the same visitation liberties as anyone else. Systems like the GOdF, GOdB, GOUSA and GWU are "open" and available so would one have the means to visit. As are many APRMM's all over the world. Times are changing and some choose to be on the forefront of that change. Oh BTW: There are three independent lodges in Glasgow and one Post-Modern lodge forming in Aberdeen. Love and Light,
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Post by leonardo on Jan 11, 2010 23:04:25 GMT
There are three independent lodges in Glasgow and one Post-Modern lodge forming in Aberdeen. Interesting. Do you have any other information on these? Web links, etc? I only ask as I'd like to read more.
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Post by leonardo on Jan 12, 2010 7:51:39 GMT
Regrettably I have had to remove some posts from this thread.
I remind members that it is dealing with Independent Lodges, it is not for the purpose of attacking one particular individual, or one particular Independent Lodge.
The choice is simple: Stay on topic or face the consequences.
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
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Post by KNOs1s on Jan 12, 2010 14:27:54 GMT
I think you exaggerate. Every day would imply that there are independent or "post-modern" lodges forming every single day, in numerous countries all over the world. This seems improbable. Other than your claims, is there any independent corroboration as to this seemingly miraculous phenomena? My Scottish Brethren are unaware of any independent movement in Scotland. That is to assume that all independent lodge are Post-modern. I have never once made that claim. I think you've misread Maximus's message. He clearly states "Every day would imply that there are independent or "post-modern" lodges forming every single day". No assumption that "all independent lodge are Post-modern" is stated or inferred. best
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 12, 2010 17:30:06 GMT
Somewhere on this wonderful planet there are independent lodges forming every day. Just this morning i was made aware of another independent lodge forming in San Francisco. I know that there have been several new lodges this year in Europe (where there are already hundreds of independent lodges.)
The independent lodge is as old as Freemasonry itself.
Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 12, 2010 18:13:21 GMT
Lodges don't have to be substantial to anyone but their membership and seekers who wish to become members.
Love and Light,
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Post by leonardo on Jan 12, 2010 19:10:38 GMT
I have again removed those posts that were out of sync with the topic at hand. Now, hopefully we can get back on track.
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KNOs1s
Member
I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Jan 12, 2010 19:12:39 GMT
I was interested in the information about the purported growth of independent lodges. It seems largely relevant. As said, I have no problem with independent lodges simply by their nature of being independent. I reserve the right to form an opinion based on the information made available, and even if the information isn't made available, that is telling as well.
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Post by leonardo on Jan 13, 2010 9:14:32 GMT
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Post by leonardo on Jan 13, 2010 9:23:21 GMT
I was interested in the information about the purported growth of independent lodges. It seems largely relevant. As said, I have no problem with independent lodges simply by their nature of being independent. I reserve the right to form an opinion based on the information made available, and even if the information isn't made available, that is telling as well. I agree. It's one thing saying there are loads of Independent Lodges forming every day, yet another when it comes to providing tangible information about them. I am trying to find on the Net information on Independent Lodges other than the ones we already know about, but to be honest I am not having much luck. Does anyone have a full, verifiable list of such lodges, with links, etc?
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Post by leonardo on Jan 13, 2010 9:26:47 GMT
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Post by maximus on Jan 13, 2010 15:25:52 GMT
I was interested in the information about the purported growth of independent lodges. It seems largely relevant. As said, I have no problem with independent lodges simply by their nature of being independent. I reserve the right to form an opinion based on the information made available, and even if the information isn't made available, that is telling as well. I agree. It's one thing saying there are loads of Independent Lodges forming every day, yet another when it comes to providing tangible information about them. I am trying to find on the Net information on Independent Lodges other than the ones we already know about, but to be honest I am not having much luck. Does anyone have a full, verifiable list of such lodges, with links, etc? I agree as well. It is one thing to assert the exponential growth of these independent lodges, quite another to verify their actual existence. Also, are what they are practicing what we know as Freemasonry? Anyone can call what they do Freemasonry, yet may not be the actual animal. Many of these independents seem to mix and match as they so please - even incorporating Satanism (by whatever euphemism) and other left-hand-path practices which, IMO, is antithetical to what most of us here know as Freemasonry. My problem with such groups is they misrepresent themselves and may confuse sincere people who think they are joining one thing, yet are instead offered something entirely different - and even destructive to their spiritual growth and well-being.
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Augur
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Travelling salesman. Roamin' profit.
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Post by Augur on Jan 13, 2010 17:13:34 GMT
I agree as well. It is one thing to assert the exponential growth of these independent lodges, quite another to verify their actual existence. I'll second that. It's also different to say that a Lodge has formed and to say that it's forming. Forming indicates an intent, which is nice, but very different from a formed functioning Lodge. I've lost count of how many forming groups I've seen evaporate over the years. Lots and lots. And even then, are they still practicing today? Some Lodges come and some Lodges go. Some are around for centuries. Would be nice if someone kept a current and correct list, for sure. Knowing from a reputable 3rd party how long a Lodge has been active could play a crucial role in catching someone's interest. Then people could know who is actually up and active, where they are, who to contact and what sort of Masonry they practice. I agree as well. It is one thing to assert the exponential growth of these independent lodges, quite another to verify their actual existence. Also, are what they are practicing what we know as Freemasonry? Anyone can call what they do Freemasonry, yet may not be the actual animal. Many of these independents seem to mix and match as they so please - even incorporating Satanism (by whatever euphemism) and other left-hand-path practices which, IMO, is antithetical to what most of us here know as Freemasonry. My problem with such groups is they misrepresent themselves and may confuse sincere people who think they are joining one thing, yet are instead offered something entirely different - and even destructive to their spiritual growth and well-being. Indeed. Especially when something that quite obviously isn't Freemasonry is sold as such. But the onus is more on the petitioner to carefully vet out the Lodge and people involved. However, a list Independents would make it easier for people to contact different Lodges and make comparisons easier.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 13, 2010 17:18:04 GMT
Brother Leo, I will iinvite a Brother from Belgium who I do a lot of work with to join this forum. he is very wellconnected to independent lodges in France, Belgium and Corsica. He is how I was introduced and able to visit French and Belgian independent lodges and he was the contact for establishment of Post-Modern freemasonry into those countries.
I will also invite some of the Brethren I work with in Germany, Scandinavia and Latin America. let's see if they decide to participate.
You are a member of the FB Post-Modern Freemasonry group. You should PM both Rodrigo and Christopher on there. They will also be able to assist you.
MFoL member Seekeroftruth also posted links to around 10 German independent lodges a while back.
Love and Light,
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 13, 2010 20:30:04 GMT
Trying for a moment to dodge the machinegun fire from the Augur and Magusmasonica trenches or a moment or two, are these Independent Lodges totally new creations or are they Lodges that were once affiliated to some Grand Lodge or Grand Orient but which for some reason or other seceded and decided to go it alone? I can see that it would be a lot more difficult to set up a Masonic Lodge from scratch than for an established Lodge to break away.
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KNOs1s
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Post by KNOs1s on Jan 13, 2010 20:47:57 GMT
I think Euclid Lodge in Michigan was once affiliated with a mainstream GL, then independent, then the GOUSA, then again became independent. Also, Vulcan Lodge was independent, then I think they joined the GOUSA, and is now independent again. I have no comment about the lodges themselves as I do not know, but I know some members who are good individuals. As earlier reported, there are many independent lodges. These are some I am most familiar with.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 13, 2010 21:05:39 GMT
Trying for a moment to dodge the machinegun fire from the Augur and Magusmasonica trenches or a moment or two, are these Independent Lodges totally new creations or are they Lodges that were once affiliated to some Grand Lodge or Grand Orient but which for some reason or other seceded and decided to go it alone? I can see that it would be a lot more difficult to set up a Masonic Lodge from scratch than for an established Lodge to break away. It depends on the individual situation. Many independents have been around for a very long time. A lodge I visited in Belgium is a "time immemorial" lodge that has been in operation since the 1760's. They have changed a little since then, having being integrated since the 1950's. Others are brand new formations. My lodge was created from the ground up as are all of the other Post-Modern lodges save for Lodge Morganrote in Germany. They where previously chartered by the Grand Orient of Denmark. There are IMHO advantages and difficulties with both. In the example of Lodge Morganrote they had already been established for a number of years. They came into our cooperative a large lodge of over 70 members. Now, if they had not sought us out by reading our material and agreeing with our Masonic intent I could see where their transition from a chartered lodge to an independent could have been very difficult. Fortunately this was not the case as they where unanimously in favor of the Post-Modern current. Building a lodge from the ground up is difficult. It requires more than ones fair share of elbow grease and old fashioned hard work. I know for an example the new lodge we have forming in North Carolina are very handy brethren. They have been able to craft lodge furniture, an altar, a blazing star etc. all on their own. These little things like a lodge room, regalia, checkered pavement can be daunting challenges. That is why we have chosen to work in a cooperative so we always have someone with a suggestion or even a solution to any given problem. Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 13, 2010 21:25:09 GMT
I think Euclid Lodge in Michigan was once affiliated with a mainstream GL, then independent, then the GOUSA, then again became independent. Also, Vulcan Lodge was independent, then I think they joined the GOUSA, and is now independent again. I have no comment about the lodges themselves as I do not know, but I know some members who are good individuals. As earlier reported, there are many independent lodges. These are some I am most familiar with. Just to clarify. Euclid Lodge was formed as a GOUSA lodge by former members of the Grand Lodge of Michigan. They have since broken from the GOUSA and are now a "blue sky" Independent lodge with a close working relationship with Emeth Lodge of Phoenix, AZ another former GOUSA lodge. Vulcan Lodge is an independent lodge formed from the ashes of a former UGLA lodge Regulus. Love and Light,
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Post by leonardo on Jan 13, 2010 23:23:16 GMT
Again I have regrettably had to delete some comments from this thread because some were either off topic, or in response to off topic posts.
The intent here is to discover usable information on Independent Lodges, but instead we are seeing far too many arguments .......this thread is not concerned with such opinions. I want to keep it focused on learning about such lodges and hopefully hear more about how and where they operate.
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