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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 17, 2010 17:04:17 GMT
Apparently, one can just start one's own lodge or GL on a whim and claim that lineage matters not. In fact, one can claim that one's new lodge or GL is even more legitimate than the actual, lineaged one's, because it fulfills some perceived shortcoming that the founder has identified in the original. Also, they can then demand that everyone recognize their legitimacy and demand respect be accorded forthwith. At least, that is the impression I have gotten over the past year or two from the internet wonders floating about in cyberspace. How was Premier GL started? By people who got together and just did it. The start of anything has to start at well, the start. As a member of a independent lodge I have never asked to be recognized by any mainstream Masons as anything. BUT here, on this forum where Masonic affiliation does not matter and all are accepted as Masons all I ask to be treated in the same manner of respect as any other member of this forum. As far as lineage goes I have found in my experience that those who bark the loudest about it are still cherrypick what lineage they accept. For an example. The MEAPRMM/GOE has an unbroken lineage through Ambelain, Garibaldi, DeNegre, Barrardie back to the foundation Cagliostro from Althohas. A more pure and direct line of the Egyptian Rites than the much touted GL of Romania that is "recognized" so go figure? I have never stated that my independent lodge is "more" legitimate than anyone. I have stated that for some it may be exactly what they want and need for their own Masonic growth. For others it will not be. That's fine. In fact there is a member of this forum who is going to be initiated into his local mainstream lodge (congrats.) he had previously contacted me through MySpace and we had in depth phone conversations. He determined that he needed a local lodge and that all that went into being an independent wasn't what he was looking for. I wished him well I even passed on his information to his local lodge. Everyone has a path. Yours may be different from mine. That does not mean that I am not allowed to pursue my path or openly talk about my enthusiasm for it where it is welcomed and allowed. Love and Light,
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 17, 2010 17:13:43 GMT
As it takes Three to Rule a Lodge, Five to Hold a Lodge and Seven to make it Perfect, I would say that it would take at least Seven Master Masons. And herein lay the concern for those who have never been initiated and want to set up Independent Lodges for themselves. Personally, I feel such people cannot be thought Masons unless they have gone through the relevant ceremonies within established forms of Masonry. But, then there's the concern about those who have gone through all the relevant ceremonies, but do not conduct themselves in accordance with the Obligations they took, or the instructions they received during such ceremonies. For me, such people are less Masons than those who have never join a Lodge, yet act in a manner we’d expect from fellow Masons. But I have no wish to digress. In certain circumstances I can understand when eligible Masons thoughtfully go about setting up Lodges independently; however, not if it’s simply because they could not gain acceptance to the Craft through accepted channels. I don’t see any value in being part of a Lodge, independent, or otherwise that was founded by non-Masons; for example, men or women who decided one day they’d set up a Lodge for themselves, but had not undergone an Initiation, are then subsequently Passed and Raised in accordance with established traditions. I think the whole idea of previous non Masons making themselves and creating lodges is overblown. I am not currently aware of such a lodges. Now me personally I would want to communicate with them instead of making pre-judgments. Then again most are not as liberal as I and that is understandable. Just to be clear, the independent movement is made up of lodges that where founded by Masons who previously where made Masons elsewhere. I would say that would hold up 99% of the time. Love and Light,
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Post by leonardo on Jan 17, 2010 17:39:09 GMT
Brad:
This is good to hear.
The Independent spirit is to be commended where it can meaningfully make a difference; otherwise, there seems little benefit to choosing such a route.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 17, 2010 18:08:33 GMT
Bro.Leo,
It is IMHO the spirit of independence that it the difference. to be fair not everyone has it in them to be an independent. They need the established structure, they need the old local lodgeroom and familiar surroundings. It's comforting and reassuring to them and that's fine.
Just like in business. many people need an established company who has all the health benefits, they have a clear and defined role of responsibility. They know exactly what they will be doing every day and what they need to do in order to get a solid performance review and keep that position.
Then there are people like me. I have not worked for anyone else since 2003. My success or failure rides on my decisions and most of the time i have to make them 100% myself. It can be very difficult and stressful to be an entrepreneur but that is what i like most about it. I love to tackle and overcome challenges. I love to build and grow new opportunities. But it comes with a ton of risk. In short it isn't for everybody.
The same goes for being an independent Mason. When we founded LNB we has a solid ritual and that was all we had in the way of establishment. The rest was implementation of ideas. Some worked OK, some where wonderful in execution and other failed miserably. But that's the way it goes. it's very hard but for me there is no other way. If I could turn back the clock I would have been independent from the start.
Love and Light,
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Post by leonardo on Jan 17, 2010 20:48:17 GMT
The same goes for being an independent Mason. When we founded LNB we has a solid ritual and that was all we had in the way of establishment. The rest was implementation of ideas. Some worked OK, some where wonderful in execution and other failed miserably. But that's the way it goes. it's very hard but for me there is no other way. If I could turn back the clock I would have been independent from the start. Love and Light, Then you’ve clearly made a decision that is right for you. Personally, I am happy to be part of LDH. Yes, we are small when compared to other Masonic organisations, but even so we are as close a community as any other and it is reassuring to know there is support if needed. Many join Masonry to be part of something that is far greater than what they might already know or are familiar with. So, with this understanding it can be difficult for some to see any gain in going Independent; at least, this was my personal take prior to starting this thread. As a result of it I have learned why some see Independence as the way to go. Let’s face it, if one isn’t happy within their established Masonic Order, and feel for some reason they would never be – even if they joined another established Order, then perhaps the best course available to them is to go Independent.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 17, 2010 21:10:49 GMT
The same goes for being an independent Mason. When we founded LNB we has a solid ritual and that was all we had in the way of establishment. The rest was implementation of ideas. Some worked OK, some where wonderful in execution and other failed miserably. But that's the way it goes. it's very hard but for me there is no other way. If I could turn back the clock I would have been independent from the start. Love and Light, Then you’ve clearly made a decision that is right for you. Personally, I am happy to be part of LDH. Yes, we are small when compared to other Masonic organisations, but even so we are as close a community as any other and it is reassuring to know there is support if needed. Many join Masonry to be part of something that is far greater than what they might already know or are familiar with. So, with this understanding it can be difficult for some to see any gain in going Independent; at least, this was my personal take prior to starting this thread. As a result of it I have learned why some see Independence as the way to go. Let’s face it, if one isn’t happy within their established Masonic Order, and feel for some reason they would never be – even if they joined another established Order, then perhaps the best course available to them is to go Independent. Thank you Brother. I cannot tell you how happy I am in my current situation. I work with Masons about Masonry in some corner of the world each and every day. I put about 50 hours a week into Freemasonry and while exhausting I love it. It is my passion and my life's calling., I have so much opportunity now to deal on so many aspects from organizational to creating new ritual I couldn't be more hands on and happy. I don't believe any of this would have been possible outside the MEAPRMM/GOE and independent Post-Modern Freemasonry. Love and Light,
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Jan 17, 2010 21:12:46 GMT
Bro.Leo, It is IMHO the spirit of independence that it the difference. to be fair not everyone has it in them to be an independent. They need the established structure, they need the old local lodgeroom and familiar surroundings. It's comforting and reassuring to them and that's fine. Just like in business. many people need an established company who has all the health benefits, they have a clear and defined role of responsibility. They know exactly what they will be doing every day and what they need to do in order to get a solid performance review and keep that position. Then there are people like me. I have not worked for anyone else since 2003. My success or failure rides on my decisions and most of the time i have to make them 100% myself. It can be very difficult and stressful to be an entrepreneur but that is what i like most about it. I love to tackle and overcome challenges. I love to build and grow new opportunities. But it comes with a ton of risk. In short it isn't for everybody. The same goes for being an independent Mason. When we founded LNB we has a solid ritual and that was all we had in the way of establishment. The rest was implementation of ideas. Some worked OK, some where wonderful in execution and other failed miserably. But that's the way it goes. it's very hard but for me there is no other way. If I could turn back the clock I would have been independent from the start. Love and Light, I don't think you would have been independent from the start. You wouldn't have had your set of circumstances and experiences to make that choice. It's that same with me, kinda. I'm a dedicated Freemason. I love everything about it. You have seen my Facebook page, Brad. I' however, needed a little bit more. I got my hands on some old rituals, some Masonic, some not, and formed a small group of like minded individuals to study and explore them. As a result I am a HUGE Steiner nut. But I don't call that Freemasonry. By doing this I am not bound by any rules or regulations save the ones my group set forth to work and grow together. It is independent study. I find it amazing. My guess is that there are some out there that would insist that it is Freemasonry, but I have no interest in calling it that because I have no need to borrow from Freemasonry's credibility to give my group status. I could care less the outside opinion of the group as we have no label
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Post by magusmasonica on Jan 17, 2010 21:16:02 GMT
Just as a side note. All independents work differently even in the Post-Modern cooperative. We have a lodge who through unanimous lodge vote decided on a period of five years between degrees. They are implementing a rigorous Masonic curriculum that will elevate each degree to a deep academic level.
Now, I may not personally agree with the solid definitive time requirement but that is their lodge business. I can say 'watch out" on how solidly educated their membership will be.
Love and Light,
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