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Post by brandt on Nov 16, 2007 19:19:02 GMT
Actions like this could shake the paradigm. Most Masons just leave their Grand Lodge and go on about their business, no explanation, nothing. They just leave. Of course those Brothers are then bad mouthed as not being "real Masons" in the first place. With Halcyon removing themselves from the GL of Ohio, well, this can shake things up a bit. Frankly, things need to be shaken up. Grand Lodges really don't amount to much of anything beneficial. Any benefit that one can find in Masonry is found in the lodge, not the Grand Lodge. This could be good or bad for the Masons under the Grand Lodge of Ohio. The GL may get a bit introspective and take the recommendations of the Masons and actually allow action on them. The other side of the spectrum could be that the GL becomes draconian in enforcing its power. There is only one way to find out rather or not any good for the Grand Lodge of Ohio will come out of this. Regardless, they won't have to put up with Brethren that they obviously don't care for and they will have something interesting to talk about for awhile.
I am shocked that this type of action has not happened a great deal more in this country.
Brandt
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Nov 16, 2007 19:31:05 GMT
There's nothing that says it hasn't happened. Here and there. Where it has happened, I'm thinking it's happened quietly. And for good reason. I'm inclined to think that the GL of Ohio will be willing to, quietly, let this lodge go. After all, there's nothing to be gained in raising a stink, no resolution to be had and they may well hope things will just die down. The question, for me, doesn't center around what the GL of Ohio will do. Instead, I want to know what this lodge will do. Instead of wondering if the GL of Ohio will let this lodge go, I'm wondering if this lodge will let the GL of Ohio go? Will they move forward in a positive, constructive way in their Masonry and in their independence from the GL? Or will they carp back, constantly, negatively and unconstructively at the GL of Ohio? Should they choose the former path, then I think they will succeed and prosper. If the latter, then I've not much hope for them. And if history is any indication, I'm guessing it will be the latter
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Post by brandt on Nov 16, 2007 20:12:37 GMT
It is certainly my hope that both parties will just go their separate ways and ignore each other.
Brandt
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ricardo
Member
Australia
Posts: 161
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Post by ricardo on Nov 16, 2007 23:46:12 GMT
I couldn't see on the Halcyon Lodge web news page why the brethren decided to leave the GL of Ohio. Apparently this lodge has about 140 members. How many were at the meeting that made the unanimous decision? How many formed the new Lodge later the same day? Does the new Lodge have a number?
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Post by zaradatha on Nov 17, 2007 7:10:54 GMT
Tonight, My thoughts and prayers are with those very brave Masons of Halcyon Lodge. When I think of My Ob. and how my "fidelity" was pledged.... I am not sure I would be brave enough to make that kind of decision.. Blessings LouAnn
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Post by maat on Nov 18, 2007 23:16:05 GMT
The question, for me, doesn't center around what the GL of Ohio will do. Instead, I want to know what this lodge will do. Instead of wondering if the GL of Ohio will let this lodge go, I'm wondering if this lodge will let the GL of Ohio go? Will they move forward in a positive, constructive way in their Masonry and in their independence from the GL? Or will they carp back, constantly, negatively and unconstructively at the GL of Ohio? Should they choose the former path, then I think they will succeed and prosper. If the latter, then I've not much hope for them. And if history is any indication, I'm guessing it will be the latter Mr Peace is not so peaceable? Good points, Imake. Maat
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 18, 2007 23:19:20 GMT
Maat,
I don't think you like me. lol
Mr. Peace
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Post by maat on Nov 18, 2007 23:38:03 GMT
Antoninus9 ... it's your Avatar. It is spooky isn't it. In answer to your question.... you don't bother me one way or the other but I definitely do not like the way you say you treat some people and I am concerned for the other Masons in the world who will be branded with the hot iron you use. That's all. I would say that you are in dangerous waters, you could be looking down the barrel of gun .... feeling lucky? ;D Actually, I feel that we could have a really good discussion if we sat down face to face - we might not agree with each other, but I feel sure we would both learn lots... and that's what life's game is all about.... learning. By the way, Lodge is not for having fun or being fun as you mentioned elsewhere, maybe this could be the core of the misunderstanding you have with other Masons? Maat
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 19, 2007 0:05:29 GMT
"By the way, Lodge is not for having fun or being fun as you mentioned elsewhere, maybe this could be the core of the misunderstanding you have with other Masons?" -- Maat
If a talk about the value of education and spirituality I'm condemned for trying to turn Freemasonry into a an elitist study club. They say "Freemasonry is a convivial society and has nothing to do with learning or spirituality. If I talk about the convivial and fun aspects I am condemned by others who say that Freemasonry is a serious life-long endeavor.
I can't win for losing. :-(
Let me give it one more try?
Freemasonry is a serious discipline that some find to be both enjoyable and fun.
My avatar scares me too. I think I'll change it.
If I get shot I'll tell the cops the Freemasons did it. The antis will have a field day. lol
Jeff
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Post by maat on Nov 19, 2007 0:57:50 GMT
Let me give it one more try? Oky dokey - yer on! ... most of the time? ;D ;D ;D Now your sword is a ploughshare ... Isaiah 2:4 "And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war." Joel 3:10 "Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, "I am a mighty man." Micah 4:3 "And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations. Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war." I've been ploughing fields of corn for a few years now, much to the consternation of some , but the field is watered well and yield is bounteous. Love, Peace and Light to you in all your endeavours Jeff. Maat
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Post by wayseer on Nov 19, 2007 5:13:18 GMT
Brethren - What is the problem? A Lodge decides on a course of action and the sky begins to fall.
This is the change that is taking place. Freemasons no longer feel locked into any one particular jurisdiction. Such Brethren are neither brave no foolish - they are following in the grand tradition of human endeavour since day one.
I suggest the problem is that many feel they should not exercise that freedom - that such action amounts to a vote against some supposed landmark that says 'No Change Allowed'.
History is repleat with such events - no doubt is some years ahead there may well be a great coming together. Let's not getting carried away here.
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 19, 2007 5:14:52 GMT
I can sense that this thread is polarising between the "Rebels" and the supporters of the "Establishment". Fair enough, it is the nature of most people to take sides on a contentious issue.
Whilst I have my own personal opinion , I am also genuinely interested in how this Independent Lodge and others which have been mentioned passim will progress. Will they flourish, albeit restricted as regards Visitation etc or will they collapse in a few years? Will they be able to retain their Temple? Will they attract new members and will other Lodges follow their example? As to UGLA I can see why they would not wish to leave one Grand Lodge then join another.
Above all, is the action of these Lodges significant in the larger scheme of things as the beginnings of a movement towards greater Lodge autonomy and the rejection of such practices as the infamous "One Day Class" and the dumbing down of Craft Freemasonry?
I await further information as to the progress of Halcyon Lodge and the others which have seceded from their former Grand Lodges with interest.
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 19, 2007 9:24:13 GMT
Well I think I read on someones blog recently and it prompts to to ask this question.
What did the GL of Ohio do to prevent this Lodge or Lodges from doing what they are doing now.
Did they stop the refurbishment of the building.
Did they stop the movement towards the TO lodge structure.
You see it has not been explained , why.
We have just heard of generalized complaints about the GL of Ohio nothing specific. I have urged the movers of these actions to be more transparent.
The casual observer can not help but point to a sequence of events over quite a short period of time.
Jeff lectures at Lodge, Jeff is a member of Lodge, Jeff is an honorary member of Lodge, Jeff is not a member at all. Lodge is suspended by GL, Lodge then returns it warrant.
Now I have not made this up, if you look through various posts here you can follow the sequence. Now to any outside observer this looks like Jeff has instigated a split of this Lodge from the GL. It is therefore not surprising that loyal members of other GL's would view this as highly suspicious.
Now the above may be a load of hogwash but it is there in that order. The Master of Halcyon should be able to see this and should be able to give a better and more understandable resume' of what happened from his and his members point of view. Until he does then the suspicion will remain.
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Post by penfold on Nov 19, 2007 11:50:33 GMT
I am concerned, and Steve this has nothing to do with supporting one side or the other, more to do with correct and fair operation of due process and requirements laid down by the constitution or rules and bye-laws of the lodge. If there are over a hundred members of Halcyon, how many voted to hand in the warrant? Irrespective of if a member is active or not by mere dint of the fact they have paid there subs and are on the roll they are a member and entitled to a say in the operation of the lodge. In particular I am considering the position of elder bretheren who may not be physically able to get to lodge, but still pay their dues, and have contributed to the life of the lodge over time.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 19, 2007 12:50:40 GMT
Bros. Bill and Penfold,
I'm not the Master of Halcyon nor do I speak for the brothers of the lodge but let me give you my observations.
The temple once housed multiple lodges (two of them had over 1000 members each) plus the Royal Arch, Council and Commandery. At one time it was a palatial edifice. Unfortunately, as American Masonry declined so did the building. The building had fallen into disrepair and fell just short of being condemned by the city. Some of the older members started selling off the antiques and furnishings to pay the bills. Much was lost during this period. Eventually the lodge starting getting a lot of new young members due to the reclamation of Ohio City as an historic center. Many young people started moving into the area. These new young Masons started restoring the old temple through their own hard labor. Believe me, it's no small task! The temple is 30,000 sq ft.
Halcyon didn't have enough money to keep the temple open on their own and restore it so it they opened it to the community and it is now being used for Olympic/Golden Gloves training for under privileged inner city kids. In 2008 it will begin hosting cultural, thespian, and arts events for the youth of Ohio City.
The GL of Ohio didn't accomplish any of this. They had written the building off as worthless. These young guys figured out a way to save the building and keep their lodge alive on their own.
The building is open to all Masons. They just hosted the Masters installation of Harding Concordia Lodge No. 345 on Friday.
All this talk of the older members being cheated or wronged is pure crap. 90% of them haven't set foot in the temple in 10 or 20 years. The temple is still open to them to use should they ever choose to do so. If the brothers at Halcyon hadn't taken the actions they did the temple would now be a parking lot and Halcyon would have been merged into Po Dunk Lodge No. 613 in the burbs. Do you think the guys who haven't attended in 20 years would like to return to discover a parking lot where their temple had once been? Somehow, I think not.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Nov 19, 2007 13:14:05 GMT
Bro Antonius, jeff Peace entered into Halcyon picture recently. Halcyon and its troubles with GL and the others started 9+ years ago. So, while more speculation with limited facts leads to partial conclusions, the american concept of what our freemasonry has turned into is a mystery to our foreign brothers. Only 5-10% of the entire roster's are active in American Freemasonry. Attendance is not mandatory. Plus during the 70's and 80's the area was in decline, so people did not feel safe going down into that area. Things changed. The major work done for the building and Lodge took place in the 30's, the last few generations inherited everything and wasted their opportunity.
So please brother bill, brother peace came in to the game in 9th ininning, to use a baseball anaology, and that was all, the problems spanned 4 DDGM's and many altercations that led to what happened.
Some of the best advice I have seen about this so far is that GL o Ohio should gather up its tea and lead by example by showing how brothers should interact with equal brothers.
There have been specifics levelled out there, but with the potential draconian back lash and what it all could entail, silence about specifics is the best policy.
remember, reality is not always what it is perceived to be.
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Post by penfold on Nov 19, 2007 13:51:35 GMT
Bros. Bill and Penfold, I'm not the Master of Halcyon nor do I speak for the brothers of the lodge but let me give you my observations. The temple once housed multiple lodges (two of them had over 1000 members each) plus the Royal Arch, Council and Commandery. At one time it was a palatial edifice. Unfortunately, as American Masonry declined so did the building. The building had fallen into disrepair and fell just short of being condemned by the city. Some of the older members started selling off the antiques and furnishings to pay the bills. Much was lost during this period. Eventually the lodge starting getting a lot of new young members due to the reclamation of Ohio City as an historic center. Many young people started moving into the area. These new young Masons started restoring the old temple through their own hard labor. Believe me, it's no small task! The temple is 30,000 sq ft. Halcyon didn't have enough money to keep the temple open on their own and restore it so it they opened it to the community and it is now being used for Olympic/Golden Gloves training for under privileged inner city kids. In 2008 it will begin hosting cultural, thespian, and arts events for the youth of Ohio City. The GL of Ohio didn't accomplish any of this. They had written the building off as worthless. These young guys figured out a way to save the building and keep their lodge alive on their own. The building is open to all Masons. They just hosted the Masters installation of Harding Concordia Lodge No. 345 on Friday. All this talk of the older members being cheated or wronged is pure crap. 90% of them haven't set foot in the temple in 10 or 20 years. The temple is still open to them to use should they ever choose to do so. If the brothers at Halcyon hadn't taken the actions they did the temple would now be a parking lot and Halcyon would have been merged into Po Dunk Lodge No. 613 in the burbs. Do you think the guys who haven't attended in 20 years would like to return to discover a parking lot where their temple had once been? Somehow, I think not. Jeff, your post above shows agression and a potty mouth, curb it or find yourself in the stands.
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Post by penfold on Nov 19, 2007 13:53:40 GMT
Bro Antonius, jeff Peace entered into Halcyon picture recently. Halcyon and its troubles with GL and the others started 9+ years ago. So, while more speculation with limited facts leads to partial conclusions, the american concept of what our freemasonry has turned into is a mystery to our foreign brothers. Only 5-10% of the entire roster's are active in American Freemasonry. Attendance is not mandatory. Plus during the 70's and 80's the area was in decline, so people did not feel safe going down into that area. Things changed. The major work done for the building and Lodge took place in the 30's, the last few generations inherited everything and wasted their opportunity. So please brother bill, brother peace came in to the game in 9th ininning, to use a baseball anaology, and that was all, the problems spanned 4 DDGM's and many altercations that led to what happened. Some of the best advice I have seen about this so far is that GL o Ohio should gather up its tea and lead by example by showing how brothers should interact with equal brothers. There have been specifics levelled out there, but with the potential draconian back lash and what it all could entail, silence about specifics is the best policy. remember, reality is not always what it is perceived to be. I still have major issues with people who are considered members being ignored because they aren't seen as 'valid' enough. If everything has been done legally and above board then how could there be a 'draconian backlash'?
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 19, 2007 14:14:42 GMT
Bro. Penfold,
In what way does the post show "aggression"? Could it be that you are overly sensitive? If you are offended I apologize for whatever offended you.
No one is being ignored in this. Lodges are governed by the officers and attending members. As it has been for centuries among Masons, the members not attending must trust the good will and intentions of those who attend and know what's going on.
Maybe you should consider trusting the brothers who know what's going on as well. It is their duty to act in the best interest of the lodge and they have done what they believed to be the right thing given the circumstances. It wasn't just a bunch of young radicals who made that decision, the older members in attendance agreed it was the right decision. It was officer election night and many brothers were there. They voted unanimously to do what they did. There were no votes against and no abstentions.
Jeff
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 19, 2007 15:08:52 GMT
There is no right or wrong here. If things are being completed correctly then all will be revealed in due course. if they are not then the Grand Lodge of Ohio are no mugs I am sure an will look after the interests of its members.
but that does not mean we cant talk about things. Jeff has his viewpoint and I have said to him be more transparent. From what I see he is trying to do that. Jeff will be the first to admit he has a short fuse, but its not as short these days as it used to be.
The question of trust ! I have tried to say why there is a question of trust, you dont take trust it is given. it is given to those who demonstrate they are trustworthy. Hell I have been accused of all sorts of things, but I try to hold firm and complete my opinions and explanations.
TC I accept what you say, but as Jeff knows this here is his platform [ the internet ] this is Jeffs thread as far as this forum is concerned he is the advocate for change. I understand there is a big movement for change in Freemasonry in the US. Personally I think you have to separate Blue Lodge from The Shrine and it will all start to work out, but thats just my singular take on things. Shrine would keep doing what it does just fine and then Freemasonry would concentrate on what it should be designed to do.
But, I know of a good number of Masons that are working toward the same ends as is being sought by Halcyon and they are doing it within the GL structure, hence creating a stronger Lodge and a stronger GL. Hence a stronger Freemasonry.
If Halcyon go on to creating a better Lodge then great and I dont think anyone here would want to see anything else. I think all they want to know is that there are not 120 Freemasons who were members of Halcyon, even though they did not attend regularly, being left out in the cold. We all know that there are active and non active Masons. The question is have the non active had a fair deal.
You see its the question of trust Jeff spoke of. I have in my Mother Lodge a member who has never attended Lodge in all the years I have been there, he pays his full membership which includes dining although he never dines. He trusts us to look after the Lodge and his money. We have a duty to preserve the Lodge he has for the last 30 years being paying his dues into.
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